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Post by neufenland on Feb 4, 2022 9:47:43 GMT -5
I worked for Catherine Lhamon earlier in my career. Of course she is well educated and extremely bright. She was also a pleasure to work for--kind, considerate and pleasant. She only got confirmed to return to Education last summer when VP Harris cast a tie-breaking vote because under her leadership, she distorted Title IX enforcement from where it was under her Obama predecessor. Without arguing the merits here (let's avoid politics), it was very controversial, spurred hundreds of lawsuits, and created a cottage industry in Title IX administrators on college campuses (the day I heard from Bob, I was in talks with a university about taking such a job). Not every smart person makes a good Supreme Court nominee. If one Democrat said no, she wouldn't be confirmed. Some who voted for her last summer might not in an election year. POTUS will nominate someone who gets confirmed without controversy. Oh it won't be her. I was responding to the attack on her as unqualified for her position at Ed. I think it will almost certainly be Judge Kentaji Brown Jackson. I will be extremely happy if that is the choice. As an aside I think the biggest failure of the Justices as a group is that they do not hire clerks from State Schools or even law schools that aren't that top tier. It diminishes the pipeline into the judiciary to a garden hose. Thomas will occasionally take clerks from non-Ivy schools. I went to an SEC law school and he had one from us a few years ago. I think Alito has also taken from state schools from time to time. But very much the exception to the rule, I agree. Barrett went to Notre Dame and was a Scalia clerk. Maybe she'll have a larger clerk pool, too. |
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Post by nylawyer on Feb 4, 2022 10:20:11 GMT -5
To say the SCOTUS is an Ivy league club would be way too inclusive.
In the past 40 years, only one Judge was appointed who did not attend either Harvard or Yale.
Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth et al need not apply.
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Post by tom b on Feb 4, 2022 12:45:33 GMT -5
To say the SCOTUS is an Ivy league club would be way too inclusive. In the past 40 years, only one Judge was appointed who did not attend either Harvard or Yale. Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth et al need not apply. Princeton, Brown, and Dartmouth do not, as I am sure you know, have law schools.
Princeton does have an alumna on the Court: Justice Kagan.
Gone are the days when Lewis Powell (Washington & Lee, the school named for 2 traitors), John Paul Stevens (Northwestern), William Rehnquist (Stanford), Sandra Day O'Connor (Stanford), and the like could be considered. Justice Powell had both his bachelor's and law degrees from W&L.
And Stevens, I think, was the last veteran on the Court. That is the sort of diversity that we could really use.
Yes, George Washington was the Father of our Country. But he was a citizen of England in the beginning.
Respectfully, Tom B
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Post by nylawyer on Feb 4, 2022 14:38:24 GMT -5
Truthfully, I put little to no thought in making my list above, those were just the first three Ivies that occurred to me.
I appreciate being given the benefit of the doubt that I actually knew they did not have law schools.
But, if I am being honest, I would have guessed Princeton did have a law school.
Actually, if I am being completely honest I would have (apparently wrongly) insisted it definitely did.
I am guessing at one time I knew it didn't, but that info is apparently no longer accessible.
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Post by christina on Feb 4, 2022 14:49:47 GMT -5
Oh that reminds me. Eons ago some guy tried to impress me by telling me he got into Princeton law….
He confirmed my suspicions that he was not trustworthy 😂
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Post by christina on Feb 4, 2022 14:51:52 GMT -5
Oh that reminds me. Eons ago some guy tried to impress me by telling me he got into Princeton law…. He confirmed my suspicions that he was not trustworthy 😂 And no the guy was not nylawyer |
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Post by FrogEsq on Feb 4, 2022 15:00:17 GMT -5
Truthfully, I put little to no thought in making my list above, those were just the first three Ivies that occurred to me. I appreciate being given the benefit of the doubt that I actually knew they did not have law schools. But, if I am being honest, I would have guessed Princeton did have a law school. Actually, if I am being completely honest I would have (apparently wrongly) insisted it definitely did. I am guessing at one time I knew it didn't, but that info is apparently no longer accessible. This reminded me of sign I saw once at a protest in D.C.- I like being right SO much that I am willing to change my mind when I'm wrong. |
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Post by tom b on Feb 4, 2022 15:01:51 GMT -5
A lifetime ago, when I was about to punch out of teaching, I called a former pre-law advisor and wondered about whether I should apply to Brown law school. That's when I found out. Too bad, as it was only about 35 miles away.
I think Justice Sotomayor is also a Princeton alumna.
Rumor has it that when Senator Cruz (Princeton undergrad) was at Harvard Law School, he nixed participation in study groups with "mere" Ivy graduates from the University of Pennsylvania. He'd only associate with those from the "upper Ivies" of Princeton, Harvard, Yale, and maybe Columbia.
Respectfully, Tom B (okay, Harvard undergrad, but HLS wisely decided that 4 years of me in Cambridge was enough)
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Post by Ace Midnight on Feb 4, 2022 15:43:52 GMT -5
William Rehnquist (Stanford), Sandra Day O'Connor (Stanford) Rehnquist and O'Connor were at Stanford Law at a very historic time. They were in the same class and briefly dated. While it is without doubt that Rehnquist was #1 in that class, there are many disputes as to how the rest of the top 10% fared. Some have O'Connor as high as #3 (and she was unquestionably top 10%), but some report Sydney Morgan was the top female graduate of 1952 and that O'Connor might have finished in the 5 to 10 range. Scott Matheson (the last Democrat governor of Utah) was also in the class of 1952. Other "luminaries" at Stanford law at the same time (in different classes) as future SCOTUS justices Rehnquist and O'Connor include Warren Christopher, John Ehrlichman, Frank Church, Shirley Hufstedler, William Baxter and Pete McCloskey. |
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Post by kylearan on Feb 4, 2022 22:57:42 GMT -5
Oh it won't be her. I was responding to the attack on her as unqualified for her position at Ed. I think it will almost certainly be Judge Kentaji Brown Jackson. I will be extremely happy if that is the choice. As an aside I think the biggest failure of the Justices as a group is that they do not hire clerks from State Schools or even law schools that aren't that top tier. It diminishes the pipeline into the judiciary to a garden hose. Thomas will occasionally take clerks from non-Ivy schools. I went to an SEC law school and he had one from us a few years ago. I think Alito has also taken from state schools from time to time. But very much the exception to the rule, I agree. Barrett went to Notre Dame and was a Scalia clerk. Maybe she'll have a larger clerk pool, too. Did you go to Georgia?? Me too, and he has had a few of our grads as clerks! And I think maybe Ginsburg once as well. |
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Post by ba on Feb 5, 2022 8:37:29 GMT -5
To say the SCOTUS is an Ivy league club would be way too inclusive. In the past 40 years, only one Judge was appointed who did not attend either Harvard or Yale. Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth et al need not apply. Princeton, Brown, and Dartmouth do not, as I am sure you know, have law schools.
Princeton does have an alumna on the Court: Justice Kagan.
Gone are the days when Lewis Powell (Washington & Lee, the school named for 2 traitors), John Paul Stevens (Northwestern), William Rehnquist (Stanford), Sandra Day O'Connor (Stanford), and the like could be considered. Justice Powell had both his bachelor's and law degrees from W&L.
And Stevens, I think, was the last veteran on the Court. That is the sort of diversity that we could really use.
Yes, George Washington was the Father of our Country. But he was a citizen of England in the beginning.
Respectfully, Tom B
I believe you mean Washington was a British subject. |
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Post by Gaidin on Feb 5, 2022 12:18:19 GMT -5
William Rehnquist (Stanford), Sandra Day O'Connor (Stanford) Rehnquist and O'Connor were at Stanford Law at a very historic time. They were in the same class and briefly dated. While it is without doubt that Rehnquist was #1 in that class, there are many disputes as to how the rest of the top 10% fared. Some have O'Connor as high as #3 (and she was unquestionably top 10%), but some report Sydney Morgan was the top female graduate of 1952 and that O'Connor might have finished in the 5 to 10 range. Scott Matheson (the last Democrat governor of Utah) was also in the class of 1952. Other "luminaries" at Stanford law at the same time (in different classes) as future SCOTUS justices Rehnquist and O'Connor include Warren Christopher, John Ehrlichman, Frank Church, Shirley Hufstedler, William Baxter and Pete McCloskey. They didn't just date Rehnquist actually proposed to O'Connor. She wisely married a fellow Arizonan and was able to gain entry into the Cowboy Hall of Fame along with a Supreme Court seat. The fact that only two justices attended Stanford and UVA and only one attended Cal is somewhat surprising to me. |
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Post by greendog on Feb 5, 2022 19:40:21 GMT -5
The idea of limiting the Court to two schools sounds discriminatory to me. But I’m just a dog
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Post by jagvet on Feb 6, 2022 10:16:46 GMT -5
The idea of limiting the Court to two schools sounds discriminatory to me. But I’m just a dog Why are you surprised? Clinton went to Yale, Bush to Harvard and Yale, Obama to Harvard, Trump to Penn. Ivies all. Biden went to Delaware and Syracuse, but will probably go for an Ivy (and maybe only Yale or Harvard), because it makes the nominee more prestigious and therefore easier to confirm. By the way, on Ted Cruz, I have a friend who was a classmate of his at Harvard law. "Ted was an intense law student. Probably the hardest working, and the craziest." Prof Alan Dershowitz said that in his 50 years at Harvard, Cruz was his brightest student, even as they often disagreed. |
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Post by neufenland on Feb 6, 2022 10:59:55 GMT -5
Thomas will occasionally take clerks from non-Ivy schools. I went to an SEC law school and he had one from us a few years ago. I think Alito has also taken from state schools from time to time. But very much the exception to the rule, I agree. Barrett went to Notre Dame and was a Scalia clerk. Maybe she'll have a larger clerk pool, too. Did you go to Georgia?? Me too, and he has had a few of our grads as clerks! And I think maybe Ginsburg once as well. LSU |
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Post by neufenland on Feb 6, 2022 18:02:55 GMT -5
To say the SCOTUS is an Ivy league club would be way too inclusive. In the past 40 years, only one Judge was appointed who did not attend either Harvard or Yale. Princeton, Brown, Dartmouth et al need not apply. Princeton, Brown, and Dartmouth do not, as I am sure you know, have law schools.
Princeton does have an alumna on the Court: Justice Kagan.
Gone are the days when Lewis Powell (Washington & Lee, the school named for 2 traitors), John Paul Stevens (Northwestern), William Rehnquist (Stanford), Sandra Day O'Connor (Stanford), and the like could be considered. Justice Powell had both his bachelor's and law degrees from W&L.
And Stevens, I think, was the last veteran on the Court. That is the sort of diversity that we could really use.
Yes, George Washington was the Father of our Country. But he was a citizen of England in the beginning.
Respectfully, Tom B
Alito did his UG at Princeton, too. |
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Post by jagvet on Feb 6, 2022 18:35:46 GMT -5
And Stevens, I think, was the last veteran on the Court. That is the sort of diversity that we could really use.
Respectfully, Tom B
Alito did his UG at Princeton, too. Alito was a non-scholarship ROTC cadet at Princeton and served as an Army Reserve Signal Corps officer for four years. He qualifies as a veteran even though he did not accrue benefits. I'd like to see more veterans nominated, but it doesn't seem to matter to POTUSes of either party. |
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Post by tom b on Feb 7, 2022 9:37:44 GMT -5
BA: Thank you for the clarification. That is what I meant to say.
Neufenland: Thank you for the addition.
JAGVET: Good to know about Justice Alito. One of my coaches in college was an ROTC graduate of Princeton and spent 2 or 3 years in the Naval Reserve as an Intelligence Officer. I only found out about it, completely by accident, some 30 years later. And Stevens was NAVY, so that really counts for a lot.
Respectfully, Tom B
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Post by bac on Feb 7, 2022 9:46:38 GMT -5
Navy = Never Again Volunteer Yourself. But I never learn
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Post by greendog on Feb 8, 2022 18:46:03 GMT -5
I was not surprised just concerned that folks think Harvard or Yale are the only feeder schools to the SC. Not representative of anything but the same ol same ol. I don’t care what school college etc you went to as long as you interpret the law correctly but the thought that only those who graduated from 2 schools can do that is incorrect.
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