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Post by jagghagg on Aug 22, 2008 11:28:58 GMT -5
“Dear to us are those who love us... but dearer are those who reject us as unworthy, for they add another life; they build a heaven before us whereof we had not dreamed, and thereby supply to us new powers out of the recesses of the spirit, and urge us to new and unattempted performances.” ~~Ralph Waldo Emerson “Oh, great reviews are the worst. They mislead you more than the bad ones, because they only fuel your ego. Then you only want another one, like potato chips or something, and the best thing you get is fat and bloated. I'd rather just refuse, thanks” ~~Chazz Palminteri “We keep going back, stronger, not weaker, because we will not allow rejection to beat us down. It will only strengthen our resolve. To be successful there is no other way.” ~~Earl G. Graves Just had to note that I received my "personalized" rejection letter yesterday "Dear Failed ALJ Candidate No. 43". I am so honored that someone took the time to walk to the copier and copy my form letter and shove it in an envelope. I have to assume that SSA has no word processing capability that would allow them to actually send out a letter to the 100 or so folks who traveled to our nation's capital to interview with our actual name on it, at least to give the impression that we were actually considered for employment. Good grief. They gave you a number ? ? ? ? ? !? ? ?  They called you "Dear" ? ? ? ! ? ?  My envelope came addressed to "Loser Residing at..." Is it just an exaggeration? If they call someone "Failed ALJ Candidate", besides sounding unpolite and unprofessional, is it because of the score or because one has been rejected. In any case, it really surprises me the use of that ugly adjective. Ladies and Gentlemen I suggest we start our own thread or even our board for those of us who recently received our heartfelt rejection letters. We could call it something like "untouchables utterances" ;D I leave the naming to others. |
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Post by jennifer on Aug 22, 2008 11:55:34 GMT -5
Churchill once said that "success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm."
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Post by lawdog98 on Aug 22, 2008 12:27:11 GMT -5
I agree Jennifer. But I bet Churchill had been drinking at the time he said that |
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Post by morgullord on Aug 22, 2008 13:25:02 GMT -5
Cognac, cigars, and 5 hours of sleep==that is how you win a war, the Churchill way.
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Post by deltajudge on Aug 22, 2008 21:44:00 GMT -5
8-)Rejection could be a blessing in disguise. If you really want a career, consider remaining in the practice of law. There you will get the satisfaction of being in charge of your own destiny. With ODAR, forget it. You will be in a boring redundant job, hearing the same identical cases day in and day out, and issuing the same decisions. In addition, you will not get any recognition, only, how many cases did you get out last month? ODAR is a production line agency, and you are an assembyline worker and nothing else. Forget being a "judge," with your robe, you are just an emplyee, because you supervise no one.
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Post by judicature on Aug 22, 2008 23:21:05 GMT -5
I see the ALJ position in a much more positive light. The large number of ODAR folks in the 2008 hiring underscores the fact that those within the agency do not share the view expressed above.
It is a good job, and I am honored to have it. Expect to work hard, but it is important and it does matter.
If you want no accountability to the public or the taxpayers for whom you work, then by all means look elsewhere for fulfillment. But if you are interested in public service because it is public service, then you will find the work of an ALJ rewarding.
I long ago decided that I wanted to do something that matters - that has lasting impact on the world around me. I don't require recognition for it, however, only the knowledge that the work I am performing positively impacts the lives of others (at least if I do the job properly). Those waiting 2 to 3 years for a hearing deserve someone who thinks their claim is important and who don't view their very real difficulties as boring or oh so familiar....
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Post by pm on Aug 22, 2008 23:45:17 GMT -5
8-)Rejection could be a blessing in disguise. If you really want a career, consider remaining in the practice of law. There you will get the satisfaction of being in charge of your own destiny. With ODAR, forget it. You will be in a boring redundant job, hearing the same identical cases day in and day out, and issuing the same decisions. In addition, you will not get any recognition, only, how many cases did you get out last month? ODAR is a production line agency, and you are an assembyline worker and nothing else. Forget being a "judge," with your robe, you are just an emplyee, because you supervise no one. You've had 59 posts, and I believe about 55 have been this same message. In charge of your destiny? You're not in charge of your own destiny in about 95% of all legal jobs, so I have no idea why you would criticize the ODAR ALJ position in this regard. Even in private practice in your own solo office, the everyday problems associated with running your own office, such as never really getting a vacation, make the job a colossal pain. Recognition? My ego does not require recognition. Don't assume we all have your needs. And by the way, unless you're the top biller in a firm, or the winning attorney in a high profile case, most attorneys most of the time get very little recognition. If you want recognition, become a politician, movie star or rock star. I don't care about recognition and I'm tired of seeing you project your personal issues about recognition onto the rest of us. Being a real judge? Again, while you clearly have issues because you apparently wanted to be an article 3 judge, I don't. Don't project your personal issues and needs about being a "real" judge onto the rest of us. ODAR ALJs decide issues of extreme importance to the litigants. Affecting one person's life is quite important enough for me. Boring? Redundant? You've clearly forgotten, or never knew, what it was like to have to bill 200 plus hours every month even while you are on vacation, on legal topics that are by their very nature more boring than anything ODAR has to offer. Clearly you've never worked in a corporate office where you are paid to justify questionable and bizarre company practices, and where promotion and recognition depend upon who you have lunch with or who you sleep with. ODAR is about medical issues and real people. A great deal of the practice of law outside ODAR is about contracts and business issues, the most mind numbingly boring topics I can think of, or it's about two people suing each other and they both deserve to lose. I would much rather deal with the medical issues and real people at ODAR. Supervising no one? THANK GOD. I long for a job where I supervise no one. I have supervised too many people for too many years. The thing I want most in my next job is to supervise no one. Clearly you never knew or have forgotten what a pain it is to hire and fire, or try to get today's generation to do anything. On the other hand, I bet you haven't supervised anyone since the advent of FMLA, ADA etc. I want to work a 40 hour a week job and go home and forget about it, and if you've read any of the posts on this board, you should know that many of the posters here want the same thing. They are tired of working 60-80 hours per week and having too many responsibilities that follow them home. Being an employee? I have no idea why this bothers you but again that appears to be a personal issue that you have never come to grips with. I want to be an employee with minimal responsibilities. In more than 20 years as an attorney I have never worked a 40 hour work week. NEVER. I want a 40 hour work week. I want someone else to worry about the office rent and the budget and interviewing kids who can't spell "office". Identical cases? That's strange because every person I have ever met in my life was different, a unique individual. No wonder you hated the job since you see everyone as being the same, everyone as redundant. The same decisions? If the facts are different and the issues are different my decisions will be different. If some are the same or similar, so what? Every case is unique to the litigants in front of me. The job is not about me. It's about THEM. Apparently you assumed that all the cases you heard were the same. I hate to break it to you now, but they weren't. The people weren't all the same either. Every case was different and every person was different. A good judge would know that. And in any event, why would similar decsions be a problem? I still get paid. I still get to go home at the end of the day and see my kids. And $150,000 per year is pretty good for assembly line work. You assume that we ALJ applicants are all like you, that we need ego stroking, exciting cases, and recognition from someone. But you're wrong. Most of us are NOT like you. Maybe you should try for a position as a TV judge. Last I heard there were about 20 of them and turnover is pretty high. We understand - the ODAR job is routine. No one will be worshipping us. Management doesn't care, but in what fantasy universe do they care? Have you ever heard of Dilbert? Do you know it's about bad management? Do you know the creator of Dilbert is rich because so many employees can identify with his cartoons? By the way, Dilbert's creator was not a government employee. He worked in the private sector and his cartoons are about the private sector. There are no perfect jobs anywhere. |
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Post by southerner on Aug 23, 2008 11:24:53 GMT -5
I agree fully with PM's post and take on other's ego issues.
The position of ALJ at ODAR provides me with an opportunity to impact more people's lives that most positions as a lawyer would permit.
The 40-hour work week and good remuneration are great pluses, also.
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Post by patience on Aug 23, 2008 12:47:22 GMT -5
I know that there are many unhappy ALJ applicants out there - but please remember that some of us who were appointed this year have waited more than 10 years for an appointment. We were on the old register and reapplied last year and finally received appointments in what I perceive as a much fairer process.
Don't let rejection consume you. If you still want to become an ALJ, be patient, work hard (especially if you are with SSA), and live life to the fullest doing all the things you and your family and/or friends enjoy. Life is short, much too short to waste it worrying about what might have been.
Re the job, I am enjoying it very much but I have never worked harder in my life. There are lots of claimants out there waiting for a hearing and, like other posters, I do feel like it is an important job and one that touches many lives.
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Post by happy on Aug 23, 2008 22:55:08 GMT -5
AMEN, PM, et seq.
I wasn't selected off the first cert, although one of my subordinates and several lower-graded people with less subject-matter experience were. Though disappointed, I was not bitter and I remained hopeful. I believe in the mission of this Agency and I was appreciative of the job I had, though I am thrilled to have been selected in the last round.
I'm sure I've said before, but just in case I haven't: If you don't like your job -- even if you're an ALJ -- get the hell out! Life's too short.
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Post by extang on Aug 24, 2008 8:25:52 GMT -5
To PM: Really good post, and I am not being sarcastic. As you may or may not be aware, I am on deltajudge's side on this issue, and I don't think it is because I need stroking or have an enormous ego. I also have worked on other extremely unsatisfying legal jobs, and had what I thought were EXTREMELY low expectations when I started working for OHA. All I can say is, wait until you get here and see what it's like. You really have to experience it to understand and believe it.
Also, different hearing offices can be very different from each other, and I can almost believe that there are some where the working conditions are at least minimally acceptable or [who knows, why not go off the deep end] even good. Maybe you'll be lucky and end up in one of those.
In any case, you are being very smart if you keep your expectations about this job very, very low. The pay is good and you can work a 40-hour week, at least most of the time , and those are very good things in any job and especially in a job requiring a law degree. Once in a while, you may be able to expedite (at least a little bit) getting benefits to somebody who deserves them and really, even desperately, needs them. I have been lucky to have some very nice colleagues and coworkers. [Again, hearing offices can be very different, and can be very unpleasant on a personal level. I have also has some extremely weird and/or unpleasant coworkers, but have found it pretty easy to avoid them] . Other than that, I find it hard to say much positive about the job.
Reading back what I just wrote, these positives are by no means trivial. Things could really be much worse [and hey, I bet they probably will be!]. Anyway, good post, and good luck.
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Post by carjack on Aug 25, 2008 14:00:35 GMT -5
Being an ALJ sounds like a great job to me and I'm willing to risk occassional boredom and frustration for the pay, benefits, and experience. Right now I suffer from boredom and frustration with an absolutely unknown and unsecure income, always based on receivables and collections and whether the new client I spent days with in anticipation of being hired actually hires, and pays, me. Sometimes its good, infrequently it's great, but it ain't no road to glory. Being in private practice and not working for a big firm or the government can be rewarding, but it is every bit as hard, with different obstacles, as working for someone. When I went out on my own, my first civil jury trial in federal court required innumerable hours of preparation. I spent 4 weeks without a day off getting ready before trial. During this time I even deflected a claim by the opposing counsel that my client was attempting to influence witnesses - no small charge in federal court. Anyway - it was a homerun. I massacred their witnesses and made them look like the dirtbags they were. I couldn't have been more elated and my client was ecstatic and the payoff was good. I found out that the jury was deadlocked for a day because they were arguing over how much to award my client and they settled on a good amount, in our favor on all claims. Next move? The defendant files a motion for new trial. Fine. The judge already let the claims go to the jury right, so he shouldn't have any problem saying no to them. The judge spends 14!!! months reviewing it before he decides that one of our claims should have non-suited and throws out the jury verdict. We're left with less than half of the verdict - and mind you I haven't yet been paid a penny on the case. So their next step is to file an appeal which of course means another year. We end of settling for half of the remaining verdict and I make something like 10 dollars an hour for my time. It was experience that is invaluable but it had to be since I paid so much for it. Out here you pay for rent, all office expenses, insurance of all kinds, parking, all overhead, bar dues, CLE, and any vacation is on your own dime, the costs of all of which have increased. I'm willing to give the agency a chance.
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Post by zero on Sept 2, 2008 12:54:29 GMT -5
"Must have hit pretty close to the mark to get her all riled up like that."-Han Solo I went through a couple of DJ's posts and I didn't see anything wrong with the posts. I think there is a difference between troll-like behavior (saying insulting and nasty things about posters) and expressing an opinion that the job of ALJ is distasteful. That kind of comment should be allowed on a "discussion" board. I've never been an ALJ and I welcome the candid reports from those familiar with the job. It's important we hear both sides of the story. 8-)Rejection could be a blessing in disguise. If you really want a career, consider remaining in the practice of law. There you will get the satisfaction of being in charge of your own destiny. With ODAR, forget it. You will be in a boring redundant job, hearing the same identical cases day in and day out, and issuing the same decisions. In addition, you will not get any recognition, only, how many cases did you get out last month? ODAR is a production line agency, and you are an assembyline worker and nothing else. Forget being a "judge," with your robe, you are just an emplyee, because you supervise no one. You've had 59 posts, and I believe about 55 have been this same message. In charge of your destiny? You're not in charge of your own destiny in about 95% of all legal jobs, so I have no idea why you would criticize the ODAR ALJ position in this regard. Even in private practice in your own solo office, the everyday problems associated with running your own office, such as never really getting a vacation, make the job a colossal pain. Recognition? My ego does not require recognition. Don't assume we all have your needs. And by the way, unless you're the top biller in a firm, or the winning attorney in a high profile case, most attorneys most of the time get very little recognition. If you want recognition, become a politician, movie star or rock star. I don't care about recognition and I'm tired of seeing you project your personal issues about recognition onto the rest of us. Being a real judge? Again, while you clearly have issues because you apparently wanted to be an article 3 judge, I don't. Don't project your personal issues and needs about being a "real" judge onto the rest of us. ODAR ALJs decide issues of extreme importance to the litigants. Affecting one person's life is quite important enough for me. Boring? Redundant? You've clearly forgotten, or never knew, what it was like to have to bill 200 plus hours every month even while you are on vacation, on legal topics that are by their very nature more boring than anything ODAR has to offer. Clearly you've never worked in a corporate office where you are paid to justify questionable and bizarre company practices, and where promotion and recognition depend upon who you have lunch with or who you sleep with. ODAR is about medical issues and real people. A great deal of the practice of law outside ODAR is about contracts and business issues, the most mind numbingly boring topics I can think of, or it's about two people suing each other and they both deserve to lose. I would much rather deal with the medical issues and real people at ODAR. Supervising no one? THANK GOD. I long for a job where I supervise no one. I have supervised too many people for too many years. The thing I want most in my next job is to supervise no one. Clearly you never knew or have forgotten what a pain it is to hire and fire, or try to get today's generation to do anything. On the other hand, I bet you haven't supervised anyone since the advent of FMLA, ADA etc. I want to work a 40 hour a week job and go home and forget about it, and if you've read any of the posts on this board, you should know that many of the posters here want the same thing. They are tired of working 60-80 hours per week and having too many responsibilities that follow them home. Being an employee? I have no idea why this bothers you but again that appears to be a personal issue that you have never come to grips with. I want to be an employee with minimal responsibilities. In more than 20 years as an attorney I have never worked a 40 hour work week. NEVER. I want a 40 hour work week. I want someone else to worry about the office rent and the budget and interviewing kids who can't spell "office". Identical cases? That's strange because every person I have ever met in my life was different, a unique individual. No wonder you hated the job since you see everyone as being the same, everyone as redundant. The same decisions? If the facts are different and the issues are different my decisions will be different. If some are the same or similar, so what? Every case is unique to the litigants in front of me. The job is not about me. It's about THEM. Apparently you assumed that all the cases you heard were the same. I hate to break it to you now, but they weren't. The people weren't all the same either. Every case was different and every person was different. A good judge would know that. And in any event, why would similar decsions be a problem? I still get paid. I still get to go home at the end of the day and see my kids. And $150,000 per year is pretty good for assembly line work. You assume that we ALJ applicants are all like you, that we need ego stroking, exciting cases, and recognition from someone. But you're wrong. Most of us are NOT like you. Maybe you should try for a position as a TV judge. Last I heard there were about 20 of them and turnover is pretty high. We understand - the ODAR job is routine. No one will be worshipping us. Management doesn't care, but in what fantasy universe do they care? Have you ever heard of Dilbert? Do you know it's about bad management? Do you know the creator of Dilbert is rich because so many employees can identify with his cartoons? By the way, Dilbert's creator was not a government employee. He worked in the private sector and his cartoons are about the private sector. There are no perfect jobs anywhere. |
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Post by judicature on Sept 2, 2008 22:22:26 GMT -5
I don't think the strength of the comments in response to deltajudge's post is any indication of having come "pretty close to the mark" in the words of that great sage Han Solo. What I think the response does reflect is the offense taken by many to the flat rejection of the worth and value of a position that some of us hold and others seek. Personally, I do not agree with deltajudge's opinion, and I do not want persons of ability to forgo consideration of the ALJ position based on the unchallenged assertions of someone who certainly appears to speak with authority and experience. The SSA ALJ position is an honorable one and, even though it may not feed your ego like an Article III position, you will make a very direct difference in the lives of others (if that is important to you).
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Post by morgullord on Sept 3, 2008 6:09:14 GMT -5
Jagghagg said:
“Dear to us are those who love us... but dearer are those who reject us as unworthy, for they add another life; they build a heaven before us whereof we had not dreamed, and thereby supply to us new powers out of the recesses of the spirit, and urge us to new and unattempted performances.”
~~Ralph Waldo Emerson
“Oh, great reviews are the worst. They mislead you more than the bad ones, because they only fuel your ego. Then you only want another one, like potato chips or something, and the best thing you get is fat and bloated. I'd rather just refuse, thanks”
~~Chazz Palminteri
“We keep going back, stronger, not weaker, because we will not allow rejection to beat us down. It will only strengthen our resolve. To be successful there is no other way.”
~~Earl G. Graves
To which I add:
"That which does not kill us makes us stronger." ~~ Friedrich Nietzsche
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Post by mississippi on Sept 4, 2008 15:02:00 GMT -5
Hey does anyone know anything more about when we might hear back from OPM, just a good guess would be appreciated, thanks, MS.
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Post by lawandorder on Sept 4, 2008 15:25:47 GMT -5
Mississippi,
Check the thread on "Notice of Results Poll" initiated by Zero. Everybody is taking a guess on when we will hear from OPM.
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Post by mississippi on Sept 4, 2008 19:06:19 GMT -5
thanks, I will check that thread, I dont mean to be excited, because i am expecting rejection laugh, thanks, ms.
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Post by deltajudge on Sept 5, 2008 10:06:19 GMT -5
8-)Told Pixie I would stop the negative stuff, just trying to be helpful, and on this string, trying to ease a little pain. Even ODAR is not very professional in what it conceives as its mission, you that choose an ALJ career with them, can strive to be. Good Luck!!
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