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Post by sgl on Dec 15, 2008 22:17:20 GMT -5
How are immigrations judges hired? I'm thinking of a career in immigration law and was curious.
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mango
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Post by mango on Dec 16, 2008 0:01:56 GMT -5
It is a somewhat lengthy process. They announce openings through USAJOBS. You send in an application and it is somehow scored. If you are considered competitive you will receive a letter asking for more information. If you are still above the line, you are invited to an interview. It is similar to the structured interview, but with emphasis on immigration court issues. This was done by a three judge panel. I was given the option of interviewing in DC or LA in person or by phone. I opted for LA. One judge was on a VTC link and the other two were in person. If you are still above the line, you get invited back to an interview in DC at Main Justice. Mine was to be by to assistant attorneys general and the chief immigration judge. As it turned out, I was interviewed the day the current AG was sworn in so only one assistant was available. If this goes well, your name is sent to the AG for appointment.
Assuming you make it this far, you are offered a tentative offer and then the background check starts. Your name then has to go through the attorney hiring process and it is up to the AG two more times before it becomes final. This can take up to six months.
IJ are paid on their own scale (four steps to reach the max in four years). The max is similar to ALJs and there is a differential for locations.
The scoring process and references to above the line cut do not refer to a formal grading system like the ALJ process. It is a better process than a few years ago, but very long and difficult.
Hope this helps.
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Post by sgl on Dec 16, 2008 8:39:09 GMT -5
It is a somewhat lengthy process. They announce openings through USAJOBS. You send in an application and it is somehow scored. If you are considered competitive you will receive a letter asking for more information. If you are still above the line, you are invited to an interview. It is similar to the structured interview, but with emphasis on immigration court issues. This was done by a three judge panel. I was given the option of interviewing in DC or LA in person or by phone. I opted for LA. One judge was on a VTC link and the other two were in person. If you are still above the line, you get invited back to an interview in DC at Main Justice. Mine was to be by to assistant attorneys general and the chief immigration judge. As it turned out, I was interviewed the day the current AG was sworn in so only one assistant was available. If this goes well, your name is sent to the AG for appointment. Assuming you make it this far, you are offered a tentative offer and then the background check starts. Your name then has to go through the attorney hiring process and it is up to the AG two more times before it becomes final. This can take up to six months. IJ are paid on their own scale (four steps to reach the max in four years). The max is similar to ALJs and there is a differential for locations. The scoring process and references to above the line cut do not refer to a formal grading system like the ALJ process. It is a better process than a few years ago, but very long and difficult. Hope this helps. Thanks a lot for the info. I assume you're an IJ, or at least you made it pretty far in the hiring process. What kind of legal experience did you have prior to applying? I'm looking to get my foot in the door at ICE, and would love to get some immigration litigation experience in a tribunal setting. Like ODAR, are the U.S. immigration courts extremely overworked etc.? Do a lot more IJ's need to be hired in your view? Thanks again. |
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Post by yogibear on Dec 16, 2008 10:04:54 GMT -5
Let me add to the questions. Are immigration judges in centralized and limited locations, DC and LA? Or are their offices regionally or near locations with high immigrant populations in various locations as funded? NY? Boston? Arizona? New Mexico? etc?
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Post by sgl on Dec 16, 2008 10:47:33 GMT -5
Let me add to the questions. Are immigration judges in centralized and limited locations, DC and LA? Or are their offices regionally or near locations with high immigrant populations in various locations as funded? NY? Boston? Arizona? New Mexico? etc? The offices are regional. Border cities, and cities with large immigrant populations have more IJs, obviously. www.usdoj.gov/eoir/sibpages/ICadr.htm |
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Post by deltajudge on Dec 16, 2008 14:13:37 GMT -5
8-)I have been retired form OHA/ODAR for almost 3 years. We had a former Immigration Judge in our office, and he said they were not covered by the APA. Things may have changed.
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Post by aljsouth on Dec 17, 2008 15:26:33 GMT -5
8-)I have been retired form OHA/ODAR for almost 3 years. We had a former Immigration Judge in our office, and he said they were not covered by the APA. Things may have changed. No. IJ's are not APA judges and the hearings by statute are not part of the APA process. Basically you do what the AG tells you to do. No protection like ALJ's have. |
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Post by friend on Dec 17, 2008 19:21:55 GMT -5
Although things may change with the new admin, remember that IJ interviews were central to the Monica Goodling loyalty scandal, with R's given overt hiring preference and D's told to take a hike. No matter how fickle ODAR may be, it's no where as bad as DOJ was.
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Post by sgl on Dec 18, 2008 12:50:36 GMT -5
Although things may change with the new admin, remember that IJ interviews were central to the Monica Goodling loyalty scandal, with R's given overt hiring preference and D's told to take a hike. No matter how fickle ODAR may be, it's no where as bad as DOJ was. I expect reform under Obama. |
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mango
Full Member
Posts: 50
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Post by mango on Dec 18, 2008 16:41:15 GMT -5
To answer some of the questions, I was offered an IJ job a couple of months prior to the ALJ position. I initially accepted, but then declined as the offer was tentative and the process, as I said above is very lengthy. The background check was going to take up to an additional 6 mths. I have no doubt I would have survived it, but was going to be too heavily in debt before I got to work.
As to background, I was an active duty military attorney for 25+ years with 8 years as a trial judge. I have no background in immigration or SS law, but a lot of trial experience as a defense counsel, prosecutor, military judge, and legal adviser to commanders and staff.
I am not sure about the reforms Obama might bring, but do know the process was entirely changed after the DOJ blow up. It went back to the way it was before Gonzales. There was a very strict process being followed. It was in someways similar to the interview by SSA. A panel of three judges interviewed me and then I was invited back to DC to be interviewed by two AAGs and the chief IJ. The two were the number two guy and the head of personnel. From what I saw it was very above board. I have no connections, political or otherwise, so the offer was based on the application and the interviews.
As to the APA thing, I don't know and didn't care. I do know from talking to other IJs that complaints are sometimes filed against IJs and the courts will criticize them which will result in an investigation by the IG for DOJ. Some of the conduct by IJs was pretty questionable and still resulted in no action taken. While they might not be subject of the APA, they still enjoy considerable protection.
As to work load, there are offices nationwide. Some work very hard and some not so hard. In LA they hear several cases per day (4-8) while in San Diego it was more like two a day. From my observations (very limited) it was a stark difference between offices. They are adversarial hearings and the Gov't is represented as can be the respondent. The counsel carry the water. This is very unlike ODAR where the judges do most of the work and the attorneys very little. (Yes I know there are reps reading this board, but save your comments as I have heard enough cases and while some may actively advocate for the client, many do nothing more than sit there.)
I don't believe IJs have the flexiplace and flexitime provisions like ODAR. That is a big draw back. Credit hours and comp time are a significant benefit that no one should underestimate.
Hope this helps and wish everyone a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year.
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Post by sgl on Dec 18, 2008 17:00:27 GMT -5
Anyone know if it's common for career ICE attorneys to make the leap to IJ?
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Post by sgl on Dec 20, 2008 9:06:33 GMT -5
Another query: who argues immigration appeals before the us circuit courts?: attorneys for the original federal agency which brought suit in the immigration court (i.e. ICE) or attorneys for the Board of Immigration Appeals (from whence the appeal to the us circuit court arose)?
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