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Post by dhsicequeen on Mar 14, 2009 19:59:44 GMT -5
Does anyone know who decides which candidates are interviewed for Social Security ALJ positions once you receive your NOR score? Which office in Washington decides? Who makes that determination?
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Post by ssaer on Mar 14, 2009 21:50:46 GMT -5
Does anyone know who decides which candidates are interviewed for Social Security ALJ positions once you receive your NOR score? Which office in Washington decides? Who makes that determination? The following answer by JAGGHAGG to a recent (March 9) inquiry by me may be responsive to your questions: Do scores have additional relevance, after placement on the Cert? Well, they certainly have relevance once SSA has put a slot in a city up for fill. Once that has been done, the top three scores for that city must be considered by the agency for selection. .. Once IN that group, [scores] have relevance if there is a preference-eligible veteran candidate in the group because to be selected over that individual, a non-reference eligible candidate would have to have a higher score. Other than that, as long as the agency has not violated merit principles in making the selections, the agency can select #100 over #1 if they want to. Are scores a factor in determining (a) which geographical locations an individual will be considered for ...? No, not really....it's a balance between when the agency puts the slot/city up for fill and where you rank on the cert. If they put up your tenth listed city the first time your name/score makes you one of the "Rule of Three," then that will be the first time you receive consideration. Are scores a factor in determining (b) which of several candidates who are interviewed for a particular location/position will be hired? Who knows, once you are in the group of three being considered ? That is up to the Selecting Official. Since you are an insider you will know better than I whether the SSA would prefer to move an individual to another location when they are going from being a staff attorney to an ALJ. Some agencies would think that would probably be the best thing to do. Other agencies may not. |
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Post by workdrone on Mar 14, 2009 21:56:41 GMT -5
Does anyone know who decides which candidates are interviewed for Social Security ALJ positions once you receive your NOR score? Which office in Washington decides? Who makes that determination? 1. SSA sent total # they want to hire to OPM, OPM multiply it by 3 and send a certificate of eligibles to SSA (based on score ranking). SSA then has to interviews everyone on that certificate. 2. OPM decides who's on the certificate. 3. Some computer program at OPM? The process is mechanical, since the certificate is based on the # of top scorers for the available geographical locations SSA wants to hire. |
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Post by odarite on Mar 15, 2009 7:05:04 GMT -5
Does anyone know who decides which candidates are interviewed for Social Security ALJ positions once you receive your NOR score? Which office in Washington decides? Who makes that determination? 1. OCALJ (Office of the Chief Administrative Law Judge). If you are on the current certificate and were interviewed last year, you will not be interviewed this year. That does not mean you will not be considered, only that they are not paying you to come talk to them again. 2. The other question: who decides who is considered? (That is to say, who is on the certificate: OPM. Person? Computer? who knows. The agency sends a list of the cities for which it is hiring and the number of vacancies in each city. OPM sends back a certificate consisting of three names for each vacancy who ranked highest and expressed a willingness to work in that city. Where do they start on the list? Who knows. But if candidates 5, 7 and 9 are put on the list for city A, then they are not considered for the remaining openings on that certificate. Mind you, it gets more complicated once the agency gets the certificate, but OPM does not simply take 3x the number of vacancies because of the vagaries of geographic preference. Edit: Barkley and JH are correct. This is what happens when you try to keep the answer from getting too complex: You end up with an oversimplification that creates errors. |
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Post by barkley on Mar 15, 2009 7:40:14 GMT -5
2. The other question: who decides who is considered? (That is to say, who is on the certificate: OPM. Person? Computer? who knows. The agency sends a list of the cities for which it is hiring and the number of vacancies in each city. OPM sends back a certificate consisting of three names for each vacancy who ranked highest and expressed a willingness to work in that city. Where do they start on the list? Who knows. But if candidates 5, 7 and 9 are put on the list for city A, then they are not considered for the remaining openings on that certificate. Mind you, it gets more complicated once the agency gets the certificate, but OPM does not simply take 3x the number of vacancies because of the vagaries of geographic preference. I am not so sure about that. I did not think OPM sent site specific lists, i.e. Candidates 5, 7, and 9 for Site A. I thought OPM just sent a list of names over. Now if Candidate 1 just put down Seattle and SSA did not have a slot in Seattle, Candidate 1 would not be on the cert, but otherwise, it is just the top numbers on the list, leaving the agency discretion to chose who it considers for each location. |
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Post by jagghagg on Mar 15, 2009 8:41:20 GMT -5
Well, I wasn't going to chime in here because after SSAER posted an old answer of mine to a related question, Workdrone swooped in to save the day and gave a clear answer. Odarite is correct, too, except for the part about considering 5, 7, and 9 for city A but then no others. If 5, 7, and 9 are geographically available for others that are to be filled, then by virture of their place on the Register and Cert, they will most likely be considered at LEAST two more times. (Rule of Three and Three Strike Rule). The same could not necessarily be said of candidates 186, 187, and 188 because by the time the agency can reach them under the 2 rules there may not be many slots left to fill.
Barkley's observation that the agency has the discretion as to whom to consider for each location also fails to take into consideration The Rule of Three. The agency must - MUST - select from the top three candidates referred for a specific vacancy. Therefore, OPM must take geographic availability into account when putting names on a ranked list of Eligibles, and the agency must consider the top three for each vacancy. What is not clear ( and which is the subject of some earnest debate) is whether the agency can legally manipulate the process (the slots, the cities, the Rules) in such a manner so as to reach a preconceived hiring goal. (it is clear the DO: not clear that it is legal.)
Long story short, OPM must take score and geographic availability into account when creating a Certificate of Eligibles and the hiring agency must take rank and geographic availability - and vet preference - into account when making their selections. Whatever else the agency does in the process is not outlined in the regs.
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Post by pm on Mar 15, 2009 9:13:19 GMT -5
Does anyone know who decides which candidates are interviewed for Social Security ALJ positions once you receive your NOR score? Which office in Washington decides? Who makes that determination? 1. OCALJ (Office of the Chief Administrative Law Judge). If you are on the current certificate and were interviewed last year, you will not be interviewed this year. That does not mean you will not be considered, only that they are not paying you to come talk to them again. 2. The other question: who decides who is considered? (That is to say, who is on the certificate: OPM. Person? Computer? who knows. The agency sends a list of the cities for which it is hiring and the number of vacancies in each city. OPM sends back a certificate consisting of three names for each vacancy who ranked highest and expressed a willingness to work in that city. Where do they start on the list? Who knows. But if candidates 5, 7 and 9 are put on the list for city A, then they are not considered for the remaining openings on that certificate. Mind you, it gets more complicated once the agency gets the certificate, but OPM does not simply take 3x the number of vacancies because of the vagaries of geographic preference. Yes, OPM does take 3x the number of names on a multiple city cert. And yes, candidates 5,7 and 9 will be considered for at least two more openings on that cert and more if ODAR likes them. |
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Post by jagghagg on Mar 15, 2009 10:54:58 GMT -5
"Candidates referred by OPM certificates are ranked by score and veteran's preference. Normally, at least three candidates are referred with additional candidates if more than one vacancy is being filled."
Such is how we see a cert of 450 for 137 vacancies.
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