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Post by arkstfan on Sept 12, 2011 13:30:11 GMT -5
I think that morgullord's logic makes sense... especially considering that it might be hard for SSA to find ALJs willing to train the new class during the week of Thanksgiving. It will be interesting to see whether offers go out prior to when the new ALJs that reported in June are eligible to transfer, which I think will be sometime this week. If my figuring is correct, the first class from the recent hire can submit transfer paperwork this Saturday.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 12, 2011 13:38:36 GMT -5
So, under the rules about transfers, if a new class becomes eligible, when does a new transfer list have to come out, and is the agency required to offer openings to transfers first even before there's a new list, or do they have to hold everything up until there's a list, or??
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Post by morgullord on Sept 12, 2011 14:35:25 GMT -5
Terms and conditions for transfers for ALJs are set forth in the CBA between the agency and the judge's union. I do not have a copy of the CBA.
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Post by morgullord on Sept 12, 2011 14:39:35 GMT -5
I do not believe that transfers require a cert. The converse cannot be said.
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Post by grassgreener on Sept 12, 2011 17:24:23 GMT -5
From a reliable source: "The offers will be in very late September. Since the last pay period ends in early October I suppose the offers could extend into the first week of October but I don't know how that FY thingy works." "Probably looking at less than 25 offers, but that number is flexible and could change like it did last time." Good luck to everyone! Remind me . . . so are offers given by telephone or e-mail? How much time are you given to respond? Generally speaking, when would someone recieve a reject notice - I assume the "reject" is by email? Thanks.
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Post by arkstfan on Sept 12, 2011 17:24:55 GMT -5
I don't have the CBA handy but my recollection is that only ALJ's on the transfer list at the time the cert is requested or received (can't remember) are covered by the "must" offer provision (must in quotes since there are exceptions).
That does not mean that the later additions cannot be offered but I would expect those offers would backfill spots in busy offices that come open and are not on the cert.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 12, 2011 17:27:02 GMT -5
Telephone. From what I've read here, some ask and are granted a day or two, or over a weekend, to decide, but not more. Most have an answer when the call comes. The reject notices come out within a few weeks after the offers are extended. Some have come out quicker than others. arkstfan- That makes sense, thanks for the info.
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Post by morgullord on Sept 12, 2011 17:41:09 GMT -5
It would make things more convenient for me if they went ahead and included the "better luck next time, Loser" e-mail in the "Notice to ALJ Candidate" package
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Post by maxlaw on Sept 12, 2011 22:56:05 GMT -5
It would make things more convenient for me if they went ahead and included the "better luck next time, Loser" e-mail in the "Notice to ALJ Candidate" package Well, I doubt ODAR will hire 25 10 pt vets who have not previously been on the register. It seems like some folk have been picked on their 3rd/4th/5th certs lately, so I'm hopeful for more of the same for several of our deserving longtime members. I guess we'll know in a couple of weeks.
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Post by Administrator ALJ on Sept 13, 2011 12:02:40 GMT -5
*Spoiler Alert* This may sound like an uneducated question.
USAJOBs.gov's posting for ALJ positions doesn't expire until October 31, 2011. Are you all talking about a different posting that would result in offers before this close date? It was my understanding that the hiring process takes a much longer time than a late-October offering would suggest.
Thanks.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 13, 2011 12:13:45 GMT -5
*Spoiler Alert* This may sound like an uneducated question. USAJOBs.gov's posting for ALJ positions doesn't expire until October 31, 2011. Are you all talking about a different posting that would result in offers before this close date? It was my understanding that the hiring process takes a much longer time than a late-October offering would suggest. Thanks. Looking at USAJobs, it appears that the "posting" you are talking about, with respect to the ALJ position that's the subject of this thread, is not for an actual job opening or an open application period, but reflects the apparent current 10/31/11 expiration date for the existing ALJ register (which contains the names of those people who have applied in the past and gone through all of the testing to be placed on the register). That listing, or "posting" also says that the position is closed for applications-- it has been since November 2009. The register was originally to expire as of November, 2010; prior to that, all of us got an email saying it was extended "until further notice". That new date seems to be 10/31/11. jobview.usajobs.gov/GetJob.aspx?JobID=74425646&JobTitle=Administrative+Law+Judge&q=Administrative+Law+Judge&where=&brd=3876&vw=b&FedEmp=N&FedPub=Y&x=97&y=7&AVSDM=2011-07-12+00%3a13%3a00Agencies that use the Administrative Law Judge register, when they have ALJ vacancies to fill, ask the Office of Personnel Management for a certificate of eligible applicants, the size of which depends on the number of positions the agency says it's trying to fill -- there have to be at least three names from the register provided for each position. There is currently active a "certificate of eligibles" pulled from the current ALJ register by OPM for the Social Security Administration (the "new certificate" that is the subject of this thread) for which hires are expected in the next two weeks, to start sometime in October/November. I know all the terminology gets confusing. Have I made it clear as mud???
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Post by roggenbier on Sept 13, 2011 15:06:30 GMT -5
The 10/31/2011 xpiration is not a given. My email says until further notice....that damned new test. OPM wants non SSA people....and people outside the USG...more delay.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 13, 2011 15:52:15 GMT -5
I know that the register extension email said "until further notice", but the 10/31/11 date has popped up in a few places (including the one that NRG refers to) as the expiration date, for now. OPM can certainly extend it again while any new testing is being developed.
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Post by morgullord on Sept 13, 2011 16:48:18 GMT -5
A little history:
Back in April 2007, CoSS and the head of OPM were scheduled to testify before Congress. Originally, they were to testify on separate matters but were serendipitously scheduled back-to-back. At the time, the disability backlog was exploding and that was why CoSS was there to testify.
When asked why the backlog was growing, CoSS said that it was because the agency could not hire more ALJs. When asked why SSA could not hire more ALJs, CoSS blamed OPM. When the Commissioner of OPM started to testify, she quickly found out that she had been thrown under the bus by CoSS. It was a brutal session for her and by the end of it she promised the committee that SSA would have a Register to hire from by the end of October 2007.
What happened thereafter is well-known to some of us and well-documented for others.
There have been skirmishes since then: i.e., SSA asks OPM to create a new Register; OPM refreshes it instead.
As pointed out by my learned brethren, 10/31/11 was the original expiration date but the Register has been extended "until further notice". The Register was last refreshed in November 2009. My guess is that OPM will refresh the Register soon and then take its own sweet time to revise the application process.
This Register will expire but not, in my opinion, on October 31, 2011.
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Post by 71stretch on Sept 13, 2011 17:42:51 GMT -5
The first expiration date was either 10/31/10 or "as of November, 2010". Then we got the "until further notice" email; later, the 10/31/11 date appeared in various places and may be the new date. I tend to think now that OPM will keep the register until they are actually ready to do whatever changes they are going to do-- so, it will be extended again.
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Post by Administrator ALJ on Sept 13, 2011 18:25:37 GMT -5
Thank you, Observer, Roggenbier, and Morgullord. That does clear things up a bit. However, I am wondering, what does it mean to have OPM "refresh" the existing register? Does OPM just delete those that have died from boredom or been snatched up by the private sector? How would they know?
Only half kidding...
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Post by tigerfan on Sept 13, 2011 19:02:47 GMT -5
To refresh the existing register simply means to add names to it. OPM allows new applications up to a certain number, say 1000, tests them and those that qualify are added to the register.
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Post by roggenbier on Sept 13, 2011 20:59:37 GMT -5
They refresh. New names, and old ones, depending on their date may recompete--as Tigerfan says. The register expires. You and everyone else are no longer eligible to be certified as eligible for hiring under a certificate as an ALJ. You are time limited for eligibility. I do not think OPM will let the current register expire until a new one will shortly follow. They dissolved the old register in 2007, just before opening the one we are all on. I don't think a new one is in the offing. The present one is still filled with competent capable people in OPM's eyes. Also, we have a looming budget train wreck and election, in which the disability backlog has no traction.
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Post by morgullord on Sept 13, 2011 21:18:26 GMT -5
Actually the disability backlog is one of the few things that has traction these days but OPM will not jump through flaming hoops in order to create a new register, precisely because SSA has been clamoring for it.
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Post by Administrator ALJ on Sept 14, 2011 9:56:42 GMT -5
Wow. Sounds like there is a bit of friction between OPM and SSA. I work in state government, so I don't know much about the federal politics between agencies. There's plenty of politics in state government to keep one occupied.
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