|
Post by goodoleboy47 on Apr 16, 2013 11:54:02 GMT -5
Exactly. No way to know how good or bad it is until you wade in but the position has changed in the last 10 years and drastically in the last 6 years. I am too far along to bail before retirement but those of you who are younger and able to practice law in other arenas should really take a long hard look at what you are fighting so hard to achieve. That said, give it a try. If you don't like the work after a couple of years you might be able to retreat to your former practice. If I had known then what I know now....
|
|
|
Post by judgeallan on Apr 18, 2013 11:51:19 GMT -5
Thanks to the last few posters for their perspective. I agree that I would get very bored working for SSA as a career. I'm just going through the process for the larger lottery of landing an ITC or FTC ALJ gig after the unavoidable initial stint at the SSA (since SSA seems to be the only agency that hires off the registry). Is that really the case? So, regardless of prior experience, SSA is the only gig a newbie can land? I think SSA experience wouldn't be terribly valuable to many federal agencies needing ALJs.
|
|
|
Post by chinook on Apr 18, 2013 12:42:18 GMT -5
SSA is not the only agency that hires newbies, but as a practical matter you need a very high score to be considered because they are hiring one or two at a time. DOL and OMHA hire off the register but they also take transfers. I know of two other agencies that within the last three years got names directly from the register but eventually hired transfers. One of them because the three names from OPM on the register had no real litigation experience (SSA decision writers).
|
|
|
Post by callmeyahonor on Apr 21, 2013 19:50:03 GMT -5
I came from big law and took a substantial paycut for the position and could not be happier. As compared to private practice, the ALJ job has no stress level to speak of. Anyone who has billed 2400 hours a year will find it simple to meet the agency expectation of 500-700 dispositions a year. I'm home by 430 every day and didn't miss my blackberry after a week in the new position. Most of the folks who complain about agency expectations have never worked outside of the government environment. I keep on one hand reading about "government expectations" and de facto quotas but I also keep coming across literature that ALJs have no supervision. Does anyone enforce the number of hours or are the ALJs on an honor system? I came from big firm life myself and even there I saw some less motivated people who didn't work as hard as the rest of us. I'm just curious....who calls an ALJ if he cuts out early everyday? There must be some consequence, no?
|
|
|
Post by southeastalj on Apr 22, 2013 18:30:32 GMT -5
I came from big law and took a substantial paycut for the position and could not be happier. As compared to private practice, the ALJ job has no stress level to speak of. Anyone who has billed 2400 hours a year will find it simple to meet the agency expectation of 500-700 dispositions a year. I'm home by 430 every day and didn't miss my blackberry after a week in the new position. Most of the folks who complain about agency expectations have never worked outside of the government environment. I keep on one hand reading about "government expectations" and de facto quotas but I also keep coming across literature that ALJs have no supervision. Does anyone enforce the number of hours or are the ALJs on an honor system? I came from big firm life myself and even there I saw some less motivated people who didn't work as hard as the rest of us. I'm just curious....who calls an ALJ if he cuts out early everyday? There must be some consequence, no? ALJ's, like all ODAR employees, sign in and out on a clipboard each day to show that they have worked their required hours or have taken appropriate leave. Yes, I said you have to sign in on a clipboard...
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 23, 2013 22:56:41 GMT -5
ALJ's, like all ODAR employees, sign in and out on a clipboard each day to show that they have worked their required hours or have taken appropriate leave. Yes, I said you have to sign in on a clipboard... This can't be true for ALJs in other agencies, or is it? Anyone know? Depends on the Agency. I have worked for three different federal agencies and SSA was the only one where I had to sign in and out everyday. Everyone signed in and out, the HOD, HOCALJ and The worker bees. ODAR is also the only agency where you had three different groups in one office. One would boycott the office functions. The majority of the office would be having a quick Christmas luncheon and only some of the members of the office would participate.
|
|
|
Post by bootstrap on Apr 24, 2013 6:04:47 GMT -5
There are agencies that hire their own judges and/or create their own registers. The Department of Justice hires immigration judges, and GSA's Civilian Board of Contract Appeals does its own hiring as well from a register it creates. The latter has a current vacancy announcement on USAJOBS. There are a number of judges on the U.S. Court of Federal Claims with previous experience as board judges.
|
|
|
Post by callmeyahonor on Apr 25, 2013 23:42:42 GMT -5
ALJ's, like all ODAR employees, sign in and out on a clipboard each day to show that they have worked their required hours or have taken appropriate leave. Yes, I said you have to sign in on a clipboard... Did you say on a clipboard? Why yes you did. hahaha
|
|
1234
Full Member
Posts: 41
|
Post by 1234 on May 1, 2013 17:56:27 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that aljfaq.
|
|
|
Post by hapi2balj on May 14, 2013 10:11:47 GMT -5
To me, this is a no-brainer. Family always trumps, and the mid-$100000 range should be enough to live well wherever you are. You can make $350g++ and you'll come up for air in a few years and your kids will be grown and won't know you. Does your spouse work outside the home? If so, I'd give her the same advice. If not, then she may be in the same boat as your kids, and the last thing you want to do is grow apart. Go for the ALJ job, hope for something besides SSA (at least eventually) and spend your free time developing your avocation. Work on an LL.M. if you need a "professional" challenge - quality distance-learning opportunities are cropping up even if there's not an LL.M. program in your geographic area. BTW - I would get out of big firm practice NOW while your kids are still young. The ALJ process can take a while and there are no guarantees. Also - I'd love to be an Article III or other judge as well, but as already has been pointed out politics and sucking up are part of that game. I was an elected judge in my State for 15 years and loved my job - but the last election went sour on me and campaigns always were draining, expensive, hard on the family. I'm in a full-time Federal government position now and the lifestyle can't be beat, but I found I prefer decision-making to advocacy so am hoping the ALJ Corps punches my dance card.
|
|
|
Post by hapi2balj on May 20, 2013 9:14:49 GMT -5
To me, this is a no-brainer. Family always trumps, and the mid-$100000 range should be enough to live well wherever you are. You can make $350g++ and you'll come up for air in a few years and your kids will be grown and won't know you. Does your spouse work outside the home? If so, I'd give her the same advice. If not, then she may be in the same boat as your kids, and the last thing you want to do is grow apart. Go for the ALJ job, hope for something besides SSA (at least eventually) and spend your free time developing your avocation. Work on an LL.M. if you need a "professional" challenge - quality distance-learning opportunities are cropping up even if there's not an LL.M. program in your geographic area. BTW - I would get out of big firm practice NOW while your kids are still young. The ALJ process can take a while and there are no guarantees. Also - I'd love to be an Article III or other judge as well, but as already has been pointed out politics and sucking up are part of that game. I was an elected judge in my State for 15 years and loved my job - but the last election went sour on me and campaigns always were draining, expensive, hard on the family. I'm in a full-time Federal government position now and the lifestyle can't be beat, but I found I prefer decision-making to advocacy so am hoping the ALJ Corps punches my dance card. I guess this answers the question I just posted to you in the other thread about why you would rather be an ALJ at SSA than a state court judge. Thank you for the very helpful information. Yes, I lost an election, as you noted from my other post and also from the info provided by another friend on here that I'm in a state which elects judges. Judges are not paid particularly well in my State, but I loved my job - it was always challenging. The election loss was quite painful on many levels -- my plan was to retire in that job -- not to mention expensive. I've landed on my feet, though, and have an interesting job as a USDOJ attorney. I fully recognize that the professional life of a SSA ALJ is not all that exciting, and not as fulfilling from a purely professional perspective as my current position. Though I'm just as interested in a meaningful career in my 50's as I was in my 30's (where you are), as trite as it sounds balance truly is everything. I very much enjoy being a decision-maker and besides background as a state ALJ and state-court judge, I started my career as Law Clerk to a U.S. District Judge. In that capacity I had some exposure to SSA cases. I also taught an Admin Law class and took my students to ALJ (incl. SSA) hearings for observation, and so consider that I have a pretty realistic idea what the life of an SSA ALJ is all about. Not the most compelling life, but one in which you have a chance to make important decisions which have a real impact on people and, if you'll once again pardon my tendency to be trite, to "do the right thing." As you well know, that's a luxury you don't always have in the practice of law. Once again, the chance to move into other ALJ roles beyond SSA always is there, the freedom you'd have to work on an LL.M., be on Bar committees (and really have time for them) or do whatever else it is you want to do to enhance your professional experience, while at the same time not compromising your time with your wife and kids, is there. Best of luck to you.
|
|
|
Post by 71stretch on May 20, 2013 10:05:14 GMT -5
I guess this answers the question I just posted to you in the other thread about why you would rather be an ALJ at SSA than a state court judge. Thank you for the very helpful information. Yes, I lost an election, as you noted from my other post and also from the info provided by another friend on here that I'm in a state which elects judges. Judges are not paid particularly well in my State, but I loved my job - it was always challenging. The election loss was quite painful on many levels -- my plan was to retire in that job -- not to mention expensive. I've landed on my feet, though, and have an interesting job as a USDOJ attorney. I fully recognize that the professional life of a SSA ALJ is not all that exciting, and not as fulfilling from a purely professional perspective as my current position. Though I'm just as interested in a meaningful career in my 50's as I was in my 30's (where you are), as trite as it sounds balance truly is everything. I very much enjoy being a decision-maker and besides background as a state ALJ and state-court judge, I started my career as Law Clerk to a U.S. District Judge. In that capacity I had some exposure to SSA cases. I also taught an Admin Law class and took my students to ALJ (incl. SSA) hearings for observation, and so consider that I have a pretty realistic idea what the life of an SSA ALJ is all about. Not the most compelling life, but one in which you have a chance to make important decisions which have a real impact on people and, if you'll once again pardon my tendency to be trite, to "do the right thing." As you well know, that's a luxury you don't always have in the practice of law. Once again, the chance to move into other ALJ roles beyond SSA always is there, the freedom you'd have to work on an LL.M., be on Bar committees (and really have time for them) or do whatever else it is you want to do to enhance your professional experience, while at the same time not compromising your time with your wife and kids, is there. Best of luck to you. Hope2balj, You've joined the list of people on this board I wish I had the opportunity to know personally. Best of luck to you.
|
|
|
Post by hod on May 20, 2013 13:39:21 GMT -5
Hope2balj- I really do hope this works out for you. You appear to have good experience and a good attitude (which is probaly more important in the ALJ job). I can't imagine having a job that I had to "campaign" to keep. The expense and uncertainty would put me over the edge. (Of course there are those who say that I would never have had a problem since there is no way I would have won the first election or been appointed). Good Luck to you!
|
|
|
Post by smithhammer on May 21, 2013 8:38:12 GMT -5
This is not really a job to take as a younger person. It can be a good job with which to end/finish a law career, a been-there-done-that career I am talking about. No disparagement of the position intended.
|
|
|
Post by srattorney on May 21, 2013 10:43:29 GMT -5
This is not really a job to take as a younger person. It can be a good job with which to end/finish a law career, a been-there-done-that career I am talking about. No disparagement of the position intended. Have to disagree. Unless making a lot more money is your key motivation, the Federal Government generally, and, for example Social Security claimants and Medicare beneficiaires could use an infusion of less lazy and warn down analysis in assessing their disability or coverage claims. The results might not necessarily change, but might be a bit more understandable. A 500 decision per year output might not be so daunting to someone in their 30s to 50s as opposed to someone over 60 just playing out the string.
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on May 21, 2013 11:00:41 GMT -5
This is not really a job to take as a younger person. It can be a good job with which to end/finish a law career, a been-there-done-that career I am talking about. No disparagement of the position intended. Have to disagree. Unless making a lot more money is your key motivation, the Federal Government generally, and, for example Social Security claimants and Medicare beneficiaires could use an infusion of less lazy and warn down analysis in assessing their disability or coverage claims. The results might not necessarily change, but might be a bit more understandable. A 500 decision per year output might not be so daunting to someone in their 30s to 50s as opposed to someone over 60 just playing out the string. I don't think the age of the ALJ matters one way or the other. It deals with work ethic, organization and productivity as in any job. I think an attorney of any age can perform the job, but it takes a certain kind of attorney to truly enjoy being a SSA Administrative Law Judge and prosper in the position. You have to have a certain mindset or you will be unhappy in your job choice, which will affect your productivity in the job. Just my humble opinion.
|
|
|
Post by noah on May 21, 2013 11:01:20 GMT -5
I think that they should hire more judges my age.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on May 21, 2013 12:18:49 GMT -5
Have to disagree. Unless making a lot more money is your key motivation, the Federal Government generally, and, for example Social Security claimants and Medicare beneficiaires could use an infusion of less lazy and warn down analysis in assessing their disability or coverage claims. The results might not necessarily change, but might be a bit more understandable. A 500 decision per year output might not be so daunting to someone in their 30s to 50s as opposed to someone over 60 just playing out the string. I don't think the age of the ALJ matters one way or the other. It deals with work ethic, organization and productivity as in any job. I think an attorney of any age can perform the job, but it takes a certain kind of attorney to truly enjoy being a SSA Administrative Law Judge and prosper in the position. You have to have a certain mindset or you will be unhappy in your job choice, which will affect your productivity in the job. Just my humble opinion. I don't necessarily disagree, but I do think age can come into play with regard to comfortability with technology. The more familiar one is with using the computer, the Internet, and other tech, the easier it is to jump around a file. In my experience, the older judges in my office have some really basic problems with electronic records or using their computers in general, but they're basic from the standpoint of someone that grew up using computers. Typing is a struggle for many as well, which leads to handwritten or typed-but-butchered instructions. If you can type at 70 wpm and quickly search electronic records or statutes on the Internet, I think your efficiency will be better overall. Maybe not by a lot, but any little bit helps. I fear the day that technology surpasses my experience. I have little doubt it will at some point.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 21, 2013 13:25:18 GMT -5
In my office, the age of the judge is immaterial. Those who can make a decision and move on without regard to what the AC may or may not do, and who don't get lost in the minutia of a case, can and do meet goals.
|
|
|
Post by moopigsdad on May 21, 2013 14:07:18 GMT -5
In your opinion, what's the mindset of the ideal candidate? What I meant by "mindset" is kind of difficult to quantify in exact terms. It is someone comfortable in making decisions that can have traumatic effects upon another person's life and yet know the decision was made based upon the rules, regulations, facts and medical record. You have to be able to sleep at night, even if your decision is one that might likely cause another person's life to crumble in the future. I meant someone who can churn out decisions quickly and fairly based upon the circumstances in front of him/her. Someone who understands a lot of the time as an ALJ is about reviewing pages of medical records ad nauseum or listening to testimony from clients and then writing out instructions about how the decision should look and be made. You (depnding upon the ODAR office) review the draft, make changes and sign a final draft. It's not the glamorous job of arguing in front of a jury or judge on a criminal trial or a high-profile civil trial like a litigator making more than $300k a year. It's pressure to produce results in as many case closings as you can, without any of the glamour or big money that can be made in real litigation. Administrative law is a different kind of animal than civil or criminal law. You have to enjoy being confined to rules and regulations written by others in making your decision, not trying to change the law by your argument or challenge the rules or regulations in front of a court of legal jurisdiction. I suggest you practice administrative law at the Federal or State level or both levels, prior to determining if being an ALJ is something you want to do for a living. If you enjoy practicing adminsitrative law than it is likely you will enjoy being an ALJ. This is about the best I can explain it to you in my terms. I know everyone feels differently and I respect other opinions, but don't think it will be an easy step to go from litigation to being an ALJ.
|
|