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Post by funkyodar on Jul 17, 2013 7:40:02 GMT -5
So, in a discussion with my office's most recent ALJ addition, one that transferred in a couple years ago, we discussed GALs and transfers and the like. The subject then turned to his opinion that the different regions of ODAR are run so differently as to make a drastic difference in the quality of life of an ALJ. Having never been in a different region, I cannot attest to such, but he came to us from Region 4 and said regional management was night and day different. According to him, the constant pressure and micromanaging of judges in Region 4 made him have daily regrets for ever taking the job (he was an outsider from a diff federal agency when he was slected and sent to a region 4 office). Once he was transfered to our office, in a diff region, he said managment seemed much more reasonable, understanding and less hostile to judges and employees.
Admittedly, I have never worked in Region 4 or any other region than the one I am in now. Another caveat, I have a couple friends in Region 4 that I know from law school, training, details and the like and they tell me they love their offices. We have never really discussed regional managment styles and differences. I just assumed all the regions were the same in regard to how hard they push, what they expect and how they are managed.
Anyone have an opinion? If I am deemed worthy and am lucky enough to get hired, I would first hope to be able to stay in the office in which I currently work. But, in reality I could go anywhere and gave a wide open GAL. But quality of life is very important and if there is insight on why one region is better or worse than another (beyond geographic locale, talking managment and the like here) I would love to know.
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Post by deltajudge on Jul 17, 2013 8:06:28 GMT -5
8-)I spent my entire career in region 4, working in 3 different field offices. There was a distinct difference in the style of management, laid back and easygoing in the early stages, just get the work done. Later stages, definitely hands on micro managing, constant back and forth memos and querys. Of course this filtered down to the ALJs and we heard from the HOD and HOCALJ.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 17, 2013 8:12:33 GMT -5
8-)I spent my entire career in region 4, working in 3 different field offices. There was a distinct difference in the style of management, laid back and easygoing in the early stages, just get the work done. Later stages, definitely hands on micro managing, constant back and forth memos and querys. Of course this filtered down to the ALJs and we heard from the HOD and HOCALJ. Thanks DJ. The change you saw from "just git'er done" to "git'er done in exactly the fashion and manner dictated by regional office," was that a region 4 change or did you understand it to have been a nationwide change? Some facets of it in all regions, but more in yours? My region certainly has its share of dictates from on high and pressures from above, but to hear this judge in my office with past region 4 experience, our regional issues are nothing compared to those in R4.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 17, 2013 8:40:39 GMT -5
8-)I spent my entire career in region 4, working in 3 different field offices. There was a distinct difference in the style of management, laid back and easygoing in the early stages, just get the work done. Later stages, definitely hands on micro managing, constant back and forth memos and querys. Of course this filtered down to the ALJs and we heard from the HOD and HOCALJ. Thanks DJ. The change you saw from "just git'er done" to "git'er done in exactly the fashion and manner dictated by regional office," was that a region 4 change or did you understand it to have been a nationwide change? Some facets of it in all regions, but more in yours? My region certainly has its share of dictates from on high and pressures from above, but to hear this judge in my office with past region 4 experience, our regional issues are nothing compared to those in R4. Based upon discussions I have had with ALJs throughout the U.S. over the years, it usually depends upon the ROCALJ and his/her management style for the region. Some are more demanding than others in how things should be done. I know that when the ROCALJ changed in one region (not naming which) from an older laid back RC to a younger more aggressive RC the entire atmosphere changed in the region. Most ALJs suddenly grumbled among themselves about the atmosphere being more toxic than in the past. You just don't know for sure. Also, people differ in the style of management they like to have in their office/region. Some like to be directed with every facet of their lives in order to achieve their goals, while others like more freedom and less direction to accomplish their goals. Just be happy funkyodar if you are lucky enough to acquire an ALJ position.
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Post by dropduff on Jul 17, 2013 8:47:41 GMT -5
Great topic Funky! I, too, have a very wide GAL, but given the choice would prefer to stay in the SE. On the other hand, if R4 is a miserable place to work, I would sure like to know that on the front end. Bottom line, if I'm fortunate enough to be selected, I will probably go wherever they send me. Nevertheless, the more information we have, the better prepared we will be.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 17, 2013 8:50:38 GMT -5
Region 4 is a bear with micro management.. That said, region 5 has a reputation of being worse..
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Post by hopefalj on Jul 17, 2013 10:14:50 GMT -5
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Post by sealaw90 on Jul 17, 2013 10:58:20 GMT -5
Any information that someone could pass on about R3? It seems like such a large region that it would really depend on the specific office.
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Post by southeastalj on Jul 17, 2013 16:57:54 GMT -5
As is easy to figure out from my "handle" I'm an ALJ in region 4. I've never felt much pressure from region though that may be because our local management tries to screen as much flak away from us that may be coming down from atlanta. As the largest region, I would think its an easier place to remain anonymous and simply be left alone but I suppose one never knows. There are what, 38 hearing offices in the region now? Regional management in region 4 is also in a pretty large state of flux with more changes likely to come so who knows what will come next. I've heard stories from ALJs in the smaller regions of getting direct emails from the RCALJ asking why certain cases aren't moving.
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Post by southeastalj on Jul 17, 2013 17:03:30 GMT -5
Oh and for outsiders who have no idea what the agency's regional structure is, google ODAR hearing office locator. It will take you to an agency website that breaks down all the offices by region as well as showing each individual offices service area.
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Post by cougarfan on Jul 17, 2013 17:25:20 GMT -5
Region 4 is a bear with micro management.. That said, region 5 has a reputation of being worse.. I've been in Region 5 for the last year and haven't seen any micromanaging, at least not in my office. It's been a great experience here.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 17, 2013 20:14:19 GMT -5
Cougar, Region 5 ROCALJ came to our office and in a meeting with the Judges told us that we were supposed to move 574 cases this year. Our HOCALJ bragged that she ruled with a firm hand and a short leash, just like she did with her 8 year old son. Due to her lack of leadership and immaturity, one of the best Judges I have ever met resigned. I am sure each office is different, but I have had seasoned Judges tell me that they wouldn't have accepted a position in Region 5. A group of Judges put in their notices that they wanted briefs. Region Chief Judge had a fit and they got two weeks off without pay.
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Post by deltajudge on Jul 17, 2013 21:00:19 GMT -5
8-)It's all a matter of perception. You see what you want to see. History speaks for itself.
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Post by cougarfan on Jul 17, 2013 21:14:03 GMT -5
Bartleby, I don't doubt your experience, mine has been different. I've served under two terrific HOCALJs here, they have each been terrific and I have not seen any micromanaging; including during our meeting with the RCALJ. I'm just grateful I'm in the office I am in, because it doesn't have any of the issues I've heard about on this board or from friends.
Yea, I guess it's a matter of perception. I can only talk about what I've actually seen. I don't know about "seeing what I want to see" (Delta). I don't really have any allegiance to my region because I'm not from here. Just my experience here.
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Post by workdrone on Jul 18, 2013 5:27:33 GMT -5
Every office is different, and there are some bad management folks out there. However, I never had any real problems with anyone since I always did a reasonable number of cases in a timely and legally sufficient manner.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 18, 2013 5:42:27 GMT -5
Congratulations, you should share with us how you do your decisions so you don't get any remands.
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Post by workdrone on Jul 18, 2013 5:49:02 GMT -5
Congratulations, you should share with us how you do your decisions so you don't get any remands. If you haven't figured out how to efficiently do your job after all the trainings you had, nothing I tell you will help. Peace out.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jul 18, 2013 9:07:39 GMT -5
A group of Judges put in their notices that they wanted briefs. Region Chief Judge had a fit and they got two weeks off without pay. Bartleby, this is significant. What does it mean to "put in notices that they wanted briefs"? By what authority can a Regional Chief Judge decide to suspend pay for two weeks? Please give me a jumpstart as to where I can read up on these rules/procedures for myself. Thx.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 18, 2013 9:31:01 GMT -5
sandiferhands, I am not sure where to find it. We may request briefs, but we supposedly can't require briefs, and their request in writing was presumed to be requirements of brief so when the attorneys complained to region, the Judges got their hands slapped. This went before the MSPB and the Union tried to fight it, but lost. You need to join the Union when you come on board and go to the Union conferences each year and becoem active. I never liked Unions before this job, but it is a necessity with the Agency we have to work with. Also, you need to buy the liability insurance that is available. Part of that insurence will help pay your attorney fees when the Agency decided to punish you for a percieved misbehavior, like calling in late (although the contract gives you an hour more than the staff)..
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 18, 2013 9:55:45 GMT -5
I am loving the info guys. Just what i wanted when I started this thread. Think I may throw up a poll where insiders can vote for what region they think is best in regards to handling ALJs and outsiders can chime in on what regions they prefer.
This info will really help when and IF we newbie aplicants actually get an offer.
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