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Post by 71stretch on Jul 18, 2013 10:37:51 GMT -5
I am loving the info guys. . . . This info will really help when and IF we newbie aplicants actually get an offer. If anyone would turn down an offer in an office within a region that didn't fare well in such a preference poll solely on that very unscientific basis, (remember, the office in question may be just fine to work in) they don't want the job that much.  JMO. |
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 18, 2013 11:05:55 GMT -5
I am loving the info guys. . . . This info will really help when and IF we newbie aplicants actually get an offer. If anyone would turn down an offer in an office within a region that didn't fare well in such a preference poll solely on that very unscientific basis, (remember, the office in question may be just fine to work in) they don't want the job that much. JMO. Not saying i would turn it down, but i like the assumption jumping. Still, as someone who has only worked in only one Region, I'd sure like to know if things are better in other regions, worse, the same. Fact is, most on this board and on the new register will never have to make such a decision as the wont get an offer anyway. But, at this stage in the game it is fun to dream and, if you are lucky enough to be offered a job, i can't imagine you can take a whole lotta time thinking about it. Many insiders (AAs and SAAs) only know what they see in their own region. Many outsiders may be under the assumption that all of them are run the exact same. I certainly recognize that the individual office makes more of a difference than the regional mgmt in day to day quality of life. But, as you undoubtedly know Observer, regional managment is becoming more and more involved in monitoring and micromanaging individual judge's cae loads, productivity and the like. I know the ALJ job is a good gig. Lifetime appointment, good salary, fairly good quality of life. But, to be honest, a lot of the judges on here speak out of both sides of the ole food hole. On one hand you get advice about not turning down any offer, that the job is too precious to miss cause you want to live in a certain place, dont want to move, worry about the receding judicial independence, etc. Then the next thread is full of bellyaching about how its sucks to get sent to "crapland," how you have no real authority, how you are micromanaged to death and how goals and the like are so horrible. I get it. There are goods and bads. It's a job. There are gonna be days you love it and days you would rather sling hash at a deli. For some, the job is a dream and a "calling" and no amount of vocational fertilizer is gonna keep them from taking it if offered. But, I also know not everyone who got to phase 3 are so enamored with wearing a robe and making a salary commiserate with what a lot of associates make in bigger city firms. At least not enamored enough to take a job in a place they dont want to live and then work for a managment team that treats them like semiskilled production workers on an assembly line. So, to that end, and as this board fosters the exchange of opinions and information (with that coming from the "been there, done that, got the robe" crowd being of extreme importance) I think asking what region most respects and best treats its ALJs is a fair question and one that many may consider. Maybe that consideration means they dont want the job bad enough...or maybe it means they live in the real world where this is, after all, just a job we are talking about. |
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jul 18, 2013 11:17:25 GMT -5
Good points funky. Would be an interesting poll!
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Post by workdrone on Jul 18, 2013 11:41:35 GMT -5
The glass is either half full or half empty. It's all in the perspective.
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Post by dropduff on Jul 18, 2013 12:02:02 GMT -5
If anyone would turn down an offer in an office within a region that didn't fare well in such a preference poll solely on that very unscientific basis, (remember, the office in question may be just fine to work in) they don't want the job that much. JMO. Not saying i would turn it down, but i like the assumption jumping. Still, as someone who has only worked in only one Region, I'd sure like to know if things are better in other regions, worse, the same. Fact is, most on this board and on the new register will never have to make such a decision as the wont get an offer anyway. But, at this stage in the game it is fun to dream and, if you are lucky enough to be offered a job, i can't imagine you can take a whole lotta time thinking about it. Many insiders (AAs and SAAs) only know what they see in their own region. Many outsiders may be under the assumption that all of them are run the exact same. I certainly recognize that the individual office makes more of a difference than the regional mgmt in day to day quality of life. But, as you undoubtedly know Observer, regional managment is becoming more and more involved in monitoring and micromanaging individual judge's cae loads, productivity and the like. I know the ALJ job is a good gig. Lifetime appointment, good salary, fairly good quality of life. But, to be honest, a lot of the judges on here speak out of both sides of the ole food hole. On one hand you get advice about not turning down any offer, that the job is too precious to miss cause you want to live in a certain place, dont want to move, worry about the receding judicial independence, etc. Then the next thread is full of bellyaching about how its sucks to get sent to "crapland," how you have no real authority, how you are micromanaged to death and how goals and the like are so horrible. I get it. There are goods and bads. It's a job. There are gonna be days you love it and days you would rather sling hash at a deli. For some, the job is a dream and a "calling" and no amount of vocational fertilizer is gonna keep them from taking it if offered. But, I also know not everyone who got to phase 3 are so enamored with wearing a robe and making a salary commiserate with what a lot of associates make in bigger city firms. At least not enamored enough to take a job in a place they dont want to live and then work for a managment team that treats them like semiskilled production workers on an assembly line. So, to that end, and as this board fosters the exchange of opinions and information (with that coming from the "been there, done that, got the robe" crowd being of extreme importance) I think asking what region most respects and best treats its ALJs is a fair question and one that many may consider. Maybe that consideration means they dont want the job bad enough...or maybe it means they live in the real world where this is, after all, just a job we are talking about. Well said, as usual, Funky. |
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jul 18, 2013 12:18:19 GMT -5
The glass is either half full or half empty. It's all in the perspective. Right on! |
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Post by 71stretch on Jul 18, 2013 13:19:13 GMT -5
The glass is either half full or half empty. It's all in the perspective. Right on! True- precisely why you will find people who have a whole range of opinions about working in the same office or region. Any poll to be taken with a large grain of salt. |
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 18, 2013 13:47:21 GMT -5
True- precisely why you will find people who have a whole range of opinions about working in the same office or region. Any poll to be taken with a large grain of salt. Just like I like my women, the saltier the better  (Board Moderators, anyway I can ensure the wife doesn't come on here? like a super spousal block or, you know, some kinda censoring device since my brain doesnt come equipped with one?  ) |
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Post by zebra51 on Jul 18, 2013 16:45:50 GMT -5
sandiferhands, Agency decided to punish you for a percieved misbehavior, like calling in late (although the contract gives you an hour more than the staff).. I worked as AA in office in region 6 for 4 years. This is the first time I have ever heard there was a deadline time to call in by. Not that I called in often ( over 700 hrs SL on the books would be more but had to be off a few weeks after I broke a leg). |
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Post by workdrone on Jul 18, 2013 17:21:38 GMT -5
What does it mean to "put in notices that they wanted briefs"? By what authority can a Regional Chief Judge decide to suspend pay for two weeks? Please give me a jumpstart as to where I can read up on these rules/procedures for myself. Thx. Here you go, courtesy of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit: www.cafc.uscourts.gov/images/stories/opinions-orders/11-3093.pdf |
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jul 18, 2013 18:52:50 GMT -5
sandiferhands, Agency decided to punish you for a percieved misbehavior, like calling in late (although the contract gives you an hour more than the staff).. I worked as AA in office in region 6 for 4 years. This is the first time I have ever heard there was a deadline time to call in by. Not that I called in often ( over 700 hrs SL on the books would be more but had to be off a few weeks after I broke a leg). I was told at hire that calling in had to be by telephone directly to a supervisor and before the end of the flexible band time of 930 am. That call in period is also in the various union contracts (NTEU/AFGE), but I do not know about ALJs. This pertains to AA/SAA and the other staff, CT/SCT etc. |
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Post by bartleby on Jul 18, 2013 19:44:19 GMT -5
AALJ Union contract says call in must be within an hour of the end of the flexible band which is 9:30, so within the hour means 10:30. As you can see from these posts, some office have more micromanagement than others.
I think this is one of the big gripes with ODAR is the different treatment of professionals in different offices.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 18, 2013 22:04:46 GMT -5
Actually, the offices should operate the same from coast to coast. We are professionals and should be treated as such without disparate treatment from office to office. Our contract is the same nationwide. It has nothing to do with how claimants are treated.. You will appreciate my view point when you are called in facing possible punishment due to misinterpretation by management of some rule, regulation, or contract article.
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Post by Orly on Jul 18, 2013 22:16:32 GMT -5
You will appreciate my view point when you are called in facing possible punishment due to misinterpretation by management of some rule, regulation, or contract article.  |
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Post by sealaw90 on Jul 19, 2013 8:22:25 GMT -5
What does it mean to "put in notices that they wanted briefs"? By what authority can a Regional Chief Judge decide to suspend pay for two weeks? Please give me a jumpstart as to where I can read up on these rules/procedures for myself. Thx. Here you go, courtesy of the Court of Appeals for the Federal Circuit: www.cafc.uscourts.gov/images/stories/opinions-orders/11-3093.pdfWell I read the case, thanks for the link. It doesn't tell us what "certain provisions identified as objectionable" actually said. I'd like to point out that this ALJ is still in Cleveland and still working, although as we all know, losing pay is never fun. |
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Post by bartleby on Jul 19, 2013 9:39:00 GMT -5
sealaw90, there was more than 1 ALJ involved I believe. Orly, man, I love that cat.. He knows, he really knows.. Most of the stuff I publish I have experienced. Paranoia runs deep, but there may be grounds for it. If you haven't seen some of this stuff, more power to you and may you remain Blessed. When i hear of someone on the outside considering teh ALJ position when they are successful and happy, I really feel that they should know what they may be getting into. I am here and will continue to be here. AS workdrone says, Peace.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jul 19, 2013 10:47:00 GMT -5
There are many of us, posters and lurkers, who really appreciate your point of view Bartleby. No job is ever going to be all 'sunshine and roses' but what flavor of nonsense a person can tolerate really needs to be known before stepping into ODAR as an ALJ...if I survive the SI/WD/LBMT! Keep the information coming, we are listening.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jul 19, 2013 10:51:48 GMT -5
sealaw90, there was more than 1 ALJ involved I believe. Orly, man, I love that cat.. He knows, he really knows.. Most of the stuff I publish I have experienced. Paranoia runs deep, but there may be grounds for it. If you haven't seen some of this stuff, more power to you and may you remain Blessed. When i hear of someone on the outside considering teh ALJ position when they are successful and happy, I really feel that they should know what they may be getting into. I am here and will continue to be here. AS workdrone says, Peace. Thanks Bartleby for the link and the information. Those of us who are newbies and used to judges having the degree of autonomy and power that we see from the state and federal district benches need our eyes opened to the hybrid role of the ALJ. Like Workdrone I merely had my appetite whetted by the cryptic nature of the opinion you linked. I can see that I'll be digging into some appellate opinions and administrative rules before my SI happens. Please keep the "what you really want to know about the job" information coming!! |
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Post by minny on Jul 19, 2013 11:17:43 GMT -5
I agree, sandiferhands! The insider information is golden and, I for one, am very capable of maintaining the perspective needed to keep from becoming distraught over situations that might never materialize if/when I am selected as an ALJ. Forewarned is forearmed!
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Post by costco on Jul 21, 2013 21:22:59 GMT -5
I've had four HOCALJ experiences in two regions. I believe the most important factor is the HOCALJ, followed by the region. You either have a good HOCALJ, or you don't. Not only did Bartleby have a terrible experience with management in R5, but my experience is that so many ALJs want to leave R5, that the whole management team (HOCALJs and R5/Chicago regional employees) is narcissistic. And, of course, paranoid about the constant departure of ALJs and others out of the region. Just sayin.
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JMO. 
(Board Moderators, anyway I can ensure the wife doesn't come on here? like a super spousal block or, you know, some kinda censoring device since my brain doesnt come equipped with one? 
)
