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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 25, 2013 11:31:30 GMT -5
Perhaps, the next time you wife asks you to cook a meal you should state: "I would prefer not to" and let her do the cooking. Oh, that's not the way it works . . . being a wise woman, she'll order in! Maybe in your house baglady, but not in mine. If my wife decides not to cook and orders in, she can pay for it, too. (In reality, my wife loves to cook and is excellent at it and wouldn't let me cook if I wanted to do so and I am a great cook myself.)
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Post by bartleby on Jul 25, 2013 11:33:18 GMT -5
Trust me, the Bartleby dare not utter, "I prefer not." She knows where my kitties live. Hell hath no fury like an angry barracuda. If Mama ain't happy, no one ain't happy. She taught me that early on. How do you think I got to be the wisest man in the world?? Stay thirsty my friends..
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 25, 2013 11:40:49 GMT -5
Trust me, the Bartleby dare not utter, "I prefer not." She knows where my kitties live. Hell hath no fury like an angry barracuda. If Mama ain't happy, no one ain't happy. She taught me that early on. How do you think I got to be the wisest man in the world?? Stay thirsty my friends..
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Post by counsel on Jul 25, 2013 12:02:36 GMT -5
I worry very much about my husband parenting my children while I am gone. He's the "fun" parent, while I'm the disciplinarian. I think it will be very difficult for him to handle the responsibilities of school, homework, dance lessons, piano lessons, soccer practice, etc. if I do get this job, we will hire some one to help keep the house clean and cook the evening meals, which should help--though not truly replacement for my role in the house. Again, so many questions with so few answers at this time. It is overwhelming. I'm very career minded. But my family is my top priority. Our compromise was school year with me, summer and vacations with dad. And since I was the one moving, I picked a house based almost entirely on schools and children's activities. Pretty much all of my time was working, with the kids (homework, activities, etc), or traveling home, but we made it work. Using credit hours and careful scheduling I was able to make all school conferences, shows, and sporting events. Thankfully I found childcare that included sick care, so I did not have to worry about missing a hearing because a child had the flu. It was very busy but doable.
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Post by 71stretch on Jul 25, 2013 12:14:56 GMT -5
The strangest d**n thing, she kept her name as she is a lawyer. Now, the strange part, we have many bank accounts. She has convinced me that she can use all of our bank acounts, but I can only use mine, which contains only a pittance and enough for kitty food. Hmmmm. She also had me convinced for 20 years that she didn't know how to cook, but she could bake great. Strange I thought, but cooked so she and the child and I wouldn't starve. She slipped up last year and made scrambled eggs. These eggs were to die for. I think she knows how to cook, but still denies it... Dear Abby, Have I been made a fool of? I must confer with the kitties on this one.. I just want her secret for scrambled eggs.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 25, 2013 12:21:14 GMT -5
The strangest d**n thing, she kept her name as she is a lawyer. Now, the strange part, we have many bank accounts. She has convinced me that she can use all of our bank acounts, but I can only use mine, which contains only a pittance and enough for kitty food. Hmmmm. She also had me convinced for 20 years that she didn't know how to cook, but she could bake great. Strange I thought, but cooked so she and the child and I wouldn't starve. She slipped up last year and made scrambled eggs. These eggs were to die for. I think she knows how to cook, but still denies it... Dear Abby, Have I been made a fool of? I must confer with the kitties on this one.. I just want her secret for scrambled eggs. Observer53 if she gave you her "secret" for making scrambled eggs, then it wouldn't be a "secret"!
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Post by 71stretch on Jul 25, 2013 12:24:41 GMT -5
I just want her secret for scrambled eggs. Observer53 if she gave you her "secret" for making scrambled eggs, then it wouldn't be a "secret"! I'm the one who used the word "secret". Perhaps "tip" would be better, if she doesn't consider it a secret.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 25, 2013 13:01:22 GMT -5
I bet I can coherce it out of her by forceful use of Puhleeeeaaaseeee... used to work for my son when he was little. I will see what I can do.
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Post by grandparay1 on Jul 25, 2013 16:53:49 GMT -5
aljfaq, everyone has different life circumstances and occupational goals. Since you have a good gig now, you can limit your GAL so you do not have to leave the family. Your experience will probably result in a rather high score, so you do not have to make the choice. When I started this ALJ thing in 2007 my circumstances were very different and I was not willing to move away from extended family (children in middle and high school, and ill parents). I had/have a pretty good gig myself, so if it was going to happen so be it. I expanded my GAL in October, but still limited it to places that my wife (wife closer to retirement) and could live for an extended period, and our children-now out of college/and away at college will visit.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 25, 2013 17:58:39 GMT -5
Here's an observation: when I posted the thread about whether it was worth it to leave my biglaw gig to become an ALJ, many responded that it was a no-brainer because I would have more time to spend with my family as an ALJ. But in this thread, there are many advising us to expand our GAL and leave the family altogether for a year or more with no more than a hope and prayer of getting a transfer and being reunited. So which is worse, leaving the family for a solid year or two while we have toddlers/kindergartners to become an ALJ, or sticking with biglaw and seeing them everyday but only for an hour or less? Ok....so you applied for the alj job, realizing that (based on your posts) you will be taking approximately a 66% pay cut, just because you want less stess and more time with family. Now you are realizing that to have anything more than a snowballs chance in a really hot place, getting a alj gig will likely require moving. But don't want to move the family so it may mean you losing the one thing you want for some period, maybe a couple years. Also, you seem to hate the idea of working for SSA, but realize you probably will have to for a while to possibly get a chance at an agency you may actually like. No offense faq, but you have what a friend of mine calls "white boy problems". I gotta think with your background you could find a job that lets you have more hometime in your own city. Especially if you can afford to go down that much in salary. You won't get a pretty black dress but won't have to move to "crapland" and deal with people that don't make your 350k a year over a worklife of 20 years.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 25, 2013 19:18:58 GMT -5
"No offense faq, but you have what a friend of mine calls "white boy problems"." Ha! That made me laugh. But I get where FAQ is coming from. I did the clerkships and the big firm and then realized that I really wanted to try cases (and as first chair or solo). So, I took a 50% pay cut and went on to the best gig of my life for a time. I've had many jobs since but it was hard to let go. Once I made the decision, I never looked back. Read the article in the New Republic about the death of big law firms . . . I'm with you hopeful2. I did the big class action firm with nationwide coverage and took a pay cut to open my own place. Took another when I left private practice. In fact, if I'm lucky enough to make alj I will only then be back up to what I averaged back then. But that was years ago and I have no doubt with the economy and tort reform I would be struggling in private practice. But faq doesn't paint the picture of a struggling street lawyer or a junior associate in danger of being cut. He has stated he only wantsthe gig for less stress and more family time . He has openly stated he doesn't want to do the job for ssa. Seems to despise the idea, but recognizes that he will almost certainly have to do time there before getting to a diff agency. As a ssa employee, I hope he gets his wish and never sets foot in an odar. We have enough judges just killing time till retirement or until something "better" comes along. Here is a wild idea. If faq is pulling down 350k a year and could live on a third of that, work like hell for 5 years and invest the other 2/3. Then he could stay home for the next ten years and have all the family time he wants. And I wouldn't have to worry about having a new judge in my "crapland" office that despises the work, doesn't want to be there and is filling a position that someone who does could have. Sorry, it's the end of the month and those of us odarians who are busting our a$$es to reach our goals and haven't had a raise in 3 years can get grumpy. Those stress free judges with all the family time that werein the office all weekend and 12 hours everyday this week are on edge too.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 25, 2013 19:30:12 GMT -5
Ok....so you applied for the alj job, realizing that (based on your posts) you will be taking approximately a 66% pay cut, just because you want less stess and more time with family. Now you are realizing that to have anything more than a snowballs chance in a really hot place, getting a alj gig will likely require moving. But don't want to move the family so it may mean you losing the one thing you want for some period, maybe a couple years. Also, you seem to hate the idea of working for SSA, but realize you probably will have to for a while to possibly get a chance at an agency you may actually like. No offense faq, but you have what a friend of mine calls "white boy problems". I gotta think with your background you could find a job that lets you have more hometime in your own city. Especially if you can afford to go down that much in salary. You won't get a pretty black dress but won't have to move to "crapland" and deal with people that don't make your 350k a year over a worklife of 20 years. No offense taken, that's an accurate assessment. The problem with just taking any job that has more home-time is job satisfaction. Because I really enjoy solving complex legal questions (but hate client/partner management), a judicial career is really the only career path that will do it for me. My first choice is federal district judge, then state trial judge, and then ALJ. While all 3 are a long shot, I can at least start on the ALJ path now and see what happens, since I am not yet eligible for the other two. And I'd just as soon not miss anymore of my kids' childhood. I really don't want to be a naysayer for you faq. But there is a huge difference in your first 2 career choices and your last. I wish you the best of luck and really do hope you get an agency that handles complex adversarial matters. Truth is though, if you are lucky enough to land a job its about 99% certain to be with ssa or medicare. Maybe you will do a bit there and get picked up by another agency, but I only know one person who knows one judge who did and she was at ssa for nearly 10 years and didn't go to an agency that handles what you want. Maybe a better route would be to land a gig at ogc with the agency you want? I dunno. and Idon't really know you. But from your posts, funky thinks you are making a big mistake and are gonna be miserable if you get "lucky" and land an alj gig.
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Post by Gaidin on Jul 25, 2013 20:13:14 GMT -5
I work for a state agency and have for the vast majority of my legal career. Although I have never made the money I would have had I stayed in private practice. In fact I and virtually every lawyer I know in state service makes far less than any of you folks working for the feds. What I have gotten is an opportunity to litigate incredibly complex cases, advise agencies about serious public policy issues, and work 40 hours a week every week. I get a steady check, benefits, and was Number 1 Son's Cub Scout Den Leader. I realize that lots of you guys have built your life styles around these huge salaries and maybe you couldn't down size all the way down to state attorney work. I promise you can live on much less than an ALJ salary and spend time with your family. You just have to be willing to let go of the "things" holding you in place.
When I hear you guys kvetching about how little time you spend with your families I wonder why don't you get off the hamster wheel. It may be easy for me to say that because I don't have the fiscal responsibilities that you may have but I can promise you getting off the hamster wheel will increase the time you can spend and hopefully the number of quality moments you have.
Final thing there are literally dozens of federal attorney jobs that pay about what ALJ jobs do to start posted every week. If an ALJ job isn't your cup of tea......
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Post by ladywordsmith on Jul 25, 2013 20:20:56 GMT -5
[Very good points snipped for brevity] Well said! The job is good for some, bitter for others. It's all about what you expect and whether it is a good fit for you. Please do your research before jumping all the way in. That's why this forum exists. Would like to agree in spades. Earlier on this thread I posted that my husband happily moved but doesn't like it so I'm on the transfer list. He often asks me if I like it and do I think it was worth it. My answer is always YES - but I tell him that's only because I was a government attorney that has worked and trained ALJs (not at SSA) for many years. So the only surprise for me about the job was the non-attorney writers at SSA. I'm surprised I still have such a big butt because I'm sure I should have worked it off by now! But I do love it. I think that part of the reason my husband has hated it so much is because he had to handle everything for the move and getting our daughter settled - something I had always done in our 20 plus years of marriage and I underestimated the strain it would put on him. Would I do it again? YES - but I would have worked less Saturdays right after the month of training and flew home every weekend during training (even if that meant falling asleep at the computer during class)! Again, good luck to all. Ladywordsmith
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 25, 2013 20:47:16 GMT -5
I work for a state agency and have for the vast majority of my legal career. Although I have never made the money I would have had I stayed in private practice. In fact I and virtually every lawyer I know in state service makes far less than any of you folks working for the feds. What I have gotten is an opportunity to litigate incredibly complex cases, advise agencies about serious public policy issues, and work 40 hours a week every week. I get a steady check, benefits, and was Number 1 Son's Cub Scout Den Leader. I realize that lots of you guys have built your life styles around these huge salaries and maybe you couldn't down size all the way down to state attorney work. I promise you can live on much less than an ALJ salary and spend time with your family. You just have to be willing to let go of the "things" holding you in place. When I hear you guys kvetching about how little time you spend with your families I wonder why don't you get off the hamster wheel. It may be easy for me to say that because I don't have the fiscal responsibilities that you may have but I can promise you getting off the hamster wheel will increase the time you can spend and hopefully the number of quality moments you have. Final thing there are literally dozens of federal attorney jobs that pay about what ALJ jobs do to start posted every week. If an ALJ job isn't your cup of tea...... Seconded. best decision I ever made was to get off the wheel. I just worry too many here have grandiose expectations of the alj job. if your dream is to have a trial court robe you are gonna be sorely disappointed. at ssa "judge"is merely a title just like "attorney adviser" "hod" and "case tech". you are part of the team and nowhere near the leader of it. I said before that an ssa alj is essentially the same as a private disability insurance company's claims examiners and but for the title that is pretty accurate. Hell, in my state aljs don't even get the reduced bar dues granted to judges. I just hope everyone goes into it with their eyes wide open. one of the judges in my office worked for years as a staff atty in a bankruptcy court. he got tired of waiting for his dream of getting a judgeship there and applied for alj. he is miserable sweaRs if he could ever get a 7 or 13 trustee appointment he would leave. Another worked for the nlrb and took the ssa gig in hopes of going back there as a alj. he applies everytime there is an opening but hasbeen at ssa over 15 years. Yet another worked as a senior atty with ssa for over a dozen years before landing an alj gig. because he had maxed out at gs13 the raisewasn't sbstantial and he says all the time the saa gig is the best in the agency and wishes he never left it. Others, both former insiders and outsiders (mostly with rep experience) knew exactly what they were getting and love the job. Just make sure you know what you are getting into before taking a job and leaving or moving your family.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Jul 25, 2013 21:52:05 GMT -5
I think you are under the misguided assumption that being a judge will let you avoid what you dislike and let you focus on what you do like. Wise words, and it wouldn't surprise me if I was. Reading this forum for the past 3 months has definitely revealed that I made the same wrong assumption about ALJs. But I have clerked for federal judges, and have something of an idea of the difference between their woes and the woes of being a partner, though admittedly the grass is always greener . . . I have seen a few ALJs who came from adversarial law careers that had a difficult time adjusting to the non-adversarial environment and they tried to find other agencies almost right away. They also disliked the fact that there are no Rules of Evidence and hearsay is the way so to speak....add in the various reps that can be non-attorneys or a friend or whomever the claimant wants to appoint, and the mix was just too much of an adjustment for them. It is by far not a rigid structured environment and you will be dealing with folks of many different cultural and educational backgrounds. You could just hear it when the leading questions were getting on their nerves. LOL! But if you can adjust to that environment knowing that in addition you have zero power over management or staff....it is a good public service position for sure. I think where funky and some others are coming from is that they already KNOW all of these things from working with the ALJs every single day, and they want want want to be an ALJ specifically for SSA. So when they read your expressions of doubt about the position or the agency, I can just see the frustration in their words....they are trying to say look, if you aren't sure....get out of the way! LOL! It is good to see all the back and forth on this as I have no doubt that there are others in your position trying to find the right life balance. Tough choices! Good luck to you!
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Post by moopigsdad on Jul 26, 2013 6:38:09 GMT -5
Question. If I want to observe some SSA hearings, can I just slip in and out of hearing rooms unobtrusively? No, the hearings are not open to the public. Unless you are the claimant or part of his/her family, the rep. or part of his/her firm and you get the ALJ's permission (in addition to the rep's and claimant's permission) you cannot be in the hearing room.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 26, 2013 8:13:31 GMT -5
Question. If I want to observe some SSA hearings, can I just slip in and out of hearing rooms unobtrusively? No, the hearings are not open to the public. Unless you are the claimant or part of his/her family, the rep. or part of his/her firm and you get the ALJ's permission (in addition to the rep's and claimant's permission) you cannot be in the hearing room. MPD is dead on right. Too much PII and HIPPA protected info in the hearing to be an open forum. As for gaining some real world knowledge, give your local hearing office a call and talk to the HOD. I'm sure she would be willing to see if any of the ALJs would cut out some time to talk to you and answer some questions. Also, there is some group that puts on a CLE and a seminar at law schools about SSA hearings and law. A couple years ago I was asked to take part in presenting a mock hearing for one of these CLEs and, while the parts of the VE, ME and Clmt were played by other ODAR folks, its was very informative and pretty close to the real deal. You may do a search or check with the bar or local law school to see if they have any upcoming. There are also some pretty decent video cles and stuff that purport to show an actual hearing. These are highly sanitized depictions though. Usually the claimant is not bawling throughout, the rep is the SSA equivalent of Clarence Darrow and for some reason the ALJ is always the most patient and clear spoken individual in the room. Just remember, dont have expectations that it is anything like a "real" hearing. These days it is more likely than not that the claimant and rep will be apearing via video and the only people in the actual hearing room are the ALJ, hearing reporter and VE. The room is smaller than any municipal courtroom and most supply closets I have been in. the actual testimony is under oath, but may be obtained through several different methods. A well prepped rep may have a nifty little script of questions (leading and hearsay all allowed), another rep may just let the claimant run expecting the ALJ to do the questioning. When you do that questioning, gotta be careful as one of the surest ways to get a case remanded is to "cross examine" the claimant. Cant appear harsh or biased even if you know the claimant's only problem sitting is his pants are on fire (of the liar liar type). If the rep wants to be a sphincter, tuff. You have no power to hold him in contempt, reprimand or do much anything else. And if you get a bit riled and say or do something...well, the agency you work for encourages them to file complaints cause they want an excuse to ask congress for more authority to fire and/or reprimand you and they need a big file of complaints to have something to point to. First time i saw a hearing at SSA, when i was initially hired and had to observe a few, i was stunned. Someone compared it to a deposition and that is probably accurate. Except for the robe and the slightly elevated seat, it looked more like a group discussion. I remember thinking that I had seen more structure and rules in a speeding ticket fight in city court. In reality, the hearings are important, but most of your work and decisions will be based on medical records. Get used to talking like a doctor.
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 26, 2013 8:33:12 GMT -5
Here is an idea that will get you a warm fuzzy feeling, meet your ethical obligations and give you tremendous insight into the ALJ job at SSA if you have not been in such a hearing. Call your local legal aid, volunteer lawyers project or similar group and volunteer to take on a couple SSA representations. There may be few available as an SSA rep doesn;t charge anything from the claimant, thus even the homeless can get one that advertises nationwide, but there are always a few. That will give you the opportunity to help someone, complete your annual pro bono obligation and see a hearing or two first hand.
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Post by lurker/dibs on Jul 26, 2013 8:54:19 GMT -5
I always tell my clients that a social security hearing is nothing more than a choreographed conversation. And the primary rule is simply not to talk over someone else. Although when I control the hearing, ie I'm the one doing in the questioning, I actually do have a plan. Some judges have relaxed hearings where he or she will ask a few questions then have the rep ask a few questions, then the judge interjects more questions, then the rep continues so its very much like a conversation. While other ALJs are authoritarian and do most of the questioning. When I train associates I always have them sit in on hearings with various types of judges so they can get a feel for the different styles.
When I started practicing I was with legal services and began by sitting in during hearings. And eventually did my own. Then moved on to private practice. Now I do about 10-20 social security hearings per month. Someone could always find a friend who does social security hearings and see if they will let you sit in--with the permission of the judge and the claimant, of course.
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