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Post by deltajudge on Jul 31, 2013 20:19:58 GMT -5
8-)Bart, in a way we are soul mates. I did it my way for 30 years. Got a lot of flak, but there was nothing those that were could do about it. Always did my job, high producer, and had the APA, which I did not have to hide behind. Was happy being a regular ALJ, no aspirations for ALJIC, HOCALJ, or any other brown nosing position. Thorn in the side for a lot of those in "management." It is sad what the ALJ selection process has come down to. I've said this before, and it is ancient history, but I'll say it again. Back when I applied for an ALJ position, it was not for any particular agency. You went on an open register, and ranked according to your score on the exam. Any agency needing ALJs, would request a register from GSA according to their needs. GSA would certify a register, selecting those at the top, from which the selecting agency would make job offers. Once you got on the register, you just didn't stay there, you had to update your qualifications, and if you thought you should be higher on the register, you enhanced that. I got on the GS-16 register before that became moot. I think the old system makes sense, not haphazard as this examination process appears to be.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 31, 2013 20:22:51 GMT -5
And I will instead of drinking the kool-aide. It has nothing to do with wearing the robe. I have seen and written good decisions. I am seeing fewer and fewer good decisions as the work load increases. I guess we have different standards in work product. Further, it has nothing to do with vetting, it has to do with the quality of the job done. Less and less Judges are developing the record prior to hearings. Less and less Judges are fully familiar with the record prior to the hearing. It has less and less to do with a full and fair hearing, it has to do with moving cases. Ask one of the new judges what ARPR is or for. No case is supposed to be scheduled prior to a Judge certifying that it is ready to be scheduled, meaning it is fully developed and ready to be heard. Almost all ODAR offices are assigning cases to the Judges at the same time they schedule them. No Judge has even looked at them to see if they are ready. If you think this system is better or even fair to the claimant, fine, that is your standard, not mine. Perhaps I'm not as jaded as you. Perhaps I will leave before I become so.
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Post by bartleby on Jul 31, 2013 20:28:03 GMT -5
MPD, did you ever see the I Love Lucy show with her working the assembly line? She did fine until she became overwhelmed as the conveyor belt sped up. It's nor always true that producing less turns out a better product, but it is a factor.
By the way, starting pay is 118,000.00 per year, it can take up to 10 years or so to make 165,000.00
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Post by ed on Jul 31, 2013 20:28:07 GMT -5
There are other factors involved in reaching 500 decisions per year other than holding hearings. There has been very few hires of writers in the last year that has resulted in not getting enough cases written. My cases are backing up in unwr. I am not going to resort to being the Little Red Hen. This has had the added benefit of having more cases sent to DOUT for many horrendous decisions requiring extra editing, or complete rewrites by in house writers.
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Post by cougarfan on Jul 31, 2013 20:30:48 GMT -5
As someone hired fairly recently I take exception to the idea that newer ALJ hires are producing lower quality work. I did not have any experience working inside the agency; but I had a very active practice before OHA/ODAR for at least that long; and I did not see the drop in quality some are putting forth. Although I have to say that as a rep I was a little disappointed when I started seeing the older judges who would pay any case where I produced an MSS from a treating source or a paid FCE, without question.
From my own experience I have a hard time getting worked up about the production goal. I was asked up front if I could produce 500-700 quality decisions a year; it's not as though I was blindsided by it after I was hired. I don't find the production expectations to be anymore rigorous than what I demanded if myself in solo practice or what was demanded if me by the partners I worked for immediately prior to this job. True, I was not an ALJ in that job but I tried to produce the best quality work I could there and had very high volume, in addition to networking, rainmaking, etc. I expect the same of the representatives appearing before me now. I feel like I produce very quality work despite the fact I'm holding around 50 hearings a month.
And for what it's worth, speaking of numbers to be hired, at our training in May I think both Glen Sklar and Judge Bice indicated they were hoping to hire 150-200 in 2014.
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Post by valkyrie on Jul 31, 2013 20:32:32 GMT -5
I have commented on the quality of the 2008 through 2012 hires before, and I still believe they represent an unusually talented group. The glut of talent that had accumulated in the ODAR staff attorney ranks finally broke through the OPM barrier when the rules were changed to credit administrative law experience equally to litigation experience. Those were the ODAR attorneys and senior attorneys with 15-20 years of experience and or significant experience in management, training and various other special details, almost all of whom have been hired, aren't interested in being an ALJ, or were blackballed. (There are a long-suffering few still out there that will hopefully be hired in this last cert off the old register!) So I would say that the following ALJs probably won't be as effective as the 2008-2012 group, but it certainly would not be anything to be ashamed or alarmed about.
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Post by workdrone on Jul 31, 2013 20:33:41 GMT -5
By the way, starting pay is 118,000.00 per year, it can take up to 10 years or so to make 165,000.00 Good Grief. Bart, where did you get your facts from? I just explained this three days ago. I don't mind you expressing your opinions, but don't give out bad facts... OK. The correct information is max of 7 years to hit the top ALJ step, could be a lot quicker in high COLA areas. And for ALJs in high COLA areas such as NY, LA, etc., starting pay is over 130k once COLA is factored in. See my old post below for details: And after three years, you're essentially at the equivalent of a GS 15/10 in the same location. Touche. For ALJs in high COLA areas (Huston, NY, SF, LA), they get very close to the ALJ pay cap of $165,300 after 3 years. For the rest of the ALJs, most of them hit the pay cap by year 5, or year 7 at the latest. See: 2013 ALJ locality pay chartALJ pay progressionFor a GS-15, it takes 18 years to get to GS-15/step 10, which currently caps out at $155,000. And for a GS-15 living in a high COLA areas like LA, it takes 12 years to hit the 155k GS-15 pay cap, and at the maximum salary, GS-15/10 is still about 8k lower than an ALJ. See: GS Pay ChartsGS Step Increases
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Post by valkyrie on Jul 31, 2013 20:36:55 GMT -5
And I will instead of drinking the kool-aide. It has nothing to do with wearing the robe. I have seen and written good decisions. I am seeing fewer and fewer good decisions as the work load increases. I guess we have different standards in work product. Further, it has nothing to do with vetting, it has to do with the quality of the job done. Less and less Judges are developing the record prior to hearings. Less and less Judges are fully familiar with the record prior to the hearing. It has less and less to do with a full and fair hearing, it has to do with moving cases. Ask one of the new judges what ARPR is or for. No case is supposed to be scheduled prior to a Judge certifying that it is ready to be scheduled, meaning it is fully developed and ready to be heard. Almost all ODAR offices are assigning cases to the Judges at the same time they schedule them. No Judge has even looked at them to see if they are ready. If you think this system is better or even fair to the claimant, fine, that is your standard, not mine. Perhaps I'm not as jaded as you. Perhaps I will leave before I become so. POST is the new ARPR!
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Post by funkyodar on Jul 31, 2013 20:39:07 GMT -5
By the way, starting pay is 118,000.00 per year, it can take up to 10 years or so to make 165,000.00 God Bart, where did you get your facts from? I just explained this three days ago. Max of 7 years to hit the top ALJ step.... See below. Touche. For ALJs in high COLA areas (Huston, NY, SF, LA), they get very close to the ALJ pay cap of $165,300 after 3 years. For the rest of the ALJs, most of them hit the pay cap by year 5, or year 7 at the latest. See: 2013 ALJ locality pay chartALJ pay progressionFor a GS-15, it takes 18 years to get to GS-15/step 10, which currently caps out at $155,000. And for a GS-15 living in a high COLA areas like LA, it takes 12 years to hit the 155k GS-15 pay cap, and at the maximum salary, GS-15/10 is still about 8k lower than an ALJ. See: GS Pay ChartsGS Step IncreasesDon't fight mom and dad...makes us kids nervous. Are we gonna have to go live at medicare's house?
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Post by valkyrie on Jul 31, 2013 20:39:51 GMT -5
There are other factors involved in reaching 500 decisions per year other than holding hearings. There has been very few hires of writers in the last year that has resulted in not getting enough cases written. My cases are backing up in unwr. I am not going to resort to being the Little Red Hen. This has had the added benefit of having more cases sent to DOUT for many horrendous decisions requiring extra editing, or complete rewrites by in house writers. I'm sure Regional will jump in and take care of that right away Ed...
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Post by Orly on Jul 31, 2013 20:48:01 GMT -5
Don't fight mom and dad...makes us kids nervous. Are we gonna have to go live at medicare's house? ROFTL
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Post by bartleby on Jul 31, 2013 20:55:51 GMT -5
Orly, you know kitties are my Krytonite. I give, good night all, I still love you. Sleep tight, sweet dreams, my kitties are calling.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2013 21:57:05 GMT -5
Sounds like this guy got cut in the early rounds of the current register (and maybe the current test too). The register was closed to the public for the last 10 years? We all know that is not the case. And the statistics I saw on the SSA and Disability Judges website show that more cases are paid than are denied. Anything to drum up business I guess.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 7:44:56 GMT -5
Reading all the recent posts, I am reminded of the situation in my last job as a judge for a federal agency, from which I retired in 2011. When I first started in the early 90's the job was a pleasure. There were fewer then 100 of us nationally, we had adequate resources and end enjoyed true quasi judicial independence. Through the years, we grew to more than 250, resources became more scarce and, worst of all, micromanagement grew exponentially. Of course, I also became older and one's appreciation of things changes with time and age. Anyway, upon reflection, I don't believe that I am prepared to return to similar circumstances and have decided to not pursue my application.
I still think that for most of the people posting in this forum this is a great opportunity. You will get great benefits and you will be able to go home after 40 hours which is rare in the legal profession. If I were at a different point in life I would certainly go for it. I also sincerely believe that it would not be fair for me to perhaps get this job that I don't need instead of it going to a younger person who is still advancing in their career.
I wish all of you the best of luck in your pursuit of a position as an ALJ. I would say, as have others, that you should go into this with eyes wide open. Be prepared, if you get the job, for mind numbing micromanagement with an emphasis on production, numbers rather than quality. if you are now in the federal government you are probably already used to this.
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 1, 2013 7:54:30 GMT -5
Reading all the recent posts, I am reminded of the situation in my last job as a judge for a federal agency, from which I retired in 2011. When I first started in the early 90's the job was a pleasure. There were fewer then 100 of us nationally, we had adequate resources and end enjoyed true quasi judicial independence. Through the years, we grew to more than 250, resources became more scarce and, worst of all, micromanagement grew exponentially. Of course, I also became older and one's appreciation of things changes with time and age. Anyway, upon reflection, I don't believe that I am prepared to return to similar circumstances and have decided to not pursue my application. I still think that for most of the people posting in this forum this is a great opportunity. You will get great benefits and you will be able to go home after 40 hours which is rare in the legal profession. If I were at a different point in life I would certainly go for it. I also sincerely believe that it would not be fair for me to perhaps get this job that I don't need instead of it going to a younger person who is still advancing in their career. I wish all of you the best of luck in your pursuit of a position as an ALJ. I would say, as have others, that you should go into this with eyes wide open. Be prepared, if you get the job, for mind numbing micromanagement with an emphasis on production, numbers rather than quality. if you are now in the federal government you are probably already used to this. Thanks for the well wishes Diogenes. It's a sad commentary on the state of the job when someone as obvioulsy intelligent, compassionate and experienced as you would abandon pursuit of the job due to the peripheral BS associated with it. Best of luck in future endeavors.
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Post by maquereau on Aug 1, 2013 7:55:37 GMT -5
What is this "strict 40-hour workweek" that keeps getting referenced? I'm usually at 40 hours by Wednesday.
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Post by lurker/dibs on Aug 1, 2013 7:57:00 GMT -5
Dio, I'm sorry for your choice of not perusing the position of ALJ. You have to do what is best for you, of course. Good luck to you in whatever choices you make in retirement.
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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 1, 2013 8:07:53 GMT -5
Reading all the recent posts, I am reminded of the situation in my last job as a judge for a federal agency, from which I retired in 2011. When I first started in the early 90's the job was a pleasure. There were fewer then 100 of us nationally, we had adequate resources and end enjoyed true quasi judicial independence. Through the years, we grew to more than 250, resources became more scarce and, worst of all, micromanagement grew exponentially. Of course, I also became older and one's appreciation of things changes with time and age. Anyway, upon reflection, I don't believe that I am prepared to return to similar circumstances and have decided to not pursue my application. I still think that for most of the people posting in this forum this is a great opportunity. You will get great benefits and you will be able to go home after 40 hours which is rare in the legal profession. If I were at a different point in life I would certainly go for it. I also sincerely believe that it would not be fair for me to perhaps get this job that I don't need instead of it going to a younger person who is still advancing in their career. I wish all of you the best of luck in your pursuit of a position as an ALJ. I would say, as have others, that you should go into this with eyes wide open. Be prepared, if you get the job, for mind numbing micromanagement with an emphasis on production, numbers rather than quality. if you are now in the federal government you are probably already used to this. Diogenes, I am so sorry we are losing out on the opportunity to gain such a thoughtful and caring individual to become an ALJ. I understand your concerns and apprehension and I agree that positions everywhere, not just in the Federal Government, are now about getting more production out of less employees to complete the job. It is a cost-cutting measure to make the business or government leaner in terms of employees, but with much greater production expected. It is a sad state of affairs indeed that pride in quality of one's work is losing out to pure production numbers. The ones short-changed in the process will be the claimants.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 1, 2013 9:32:00 GMT -5
Reading all the recent posts, I am reminded of the situation in my last job as a judge for a federal agency, from which I retired in 2011. When I first started in the early 90's the job was a pleasure. There were fewer then 100 of us nationally, we had adequate resources and end enjoyed true quasi judicial independence. Through the years, we grew to more than 250, resources became more scarce and, worst of all, micromanagement grew exponentially. Of course, I also became older and one's appreciation of things changes with time and age. Anyway, upon reflection, I don't believe that I am prepared to return to similar circumstances and have decided to not pursue my application. I still think that for most of the people posting in this forum this is a great opportunity. You will get great benefits and you will be able to go home after 40 hours which is rare in the legal profession. If I were at a different point in life I would certainly go for it. I also sincerely believe that it would not be fair for me to perhaps get this job that I don't need instead of it going to a younger person who is still advancing in their career. I wish all of you the best of luck in your pursuit of a position as an ALJ. I would say, as have others, that you should go into this with eyes wide open. Be prepared, if you get the job, for mind numbing micromanagement with an emphasis on production, numbers rather than quality. if you are now in the federal government you are probably already used to this. Wow, sorry to see you decide to drop out at this point but good on you for realizing that you do not want to deal with some of the issues that are raised on this board if you got hired. I have to admit that reading the board can be depressing at times and has made me question whether or not I want to continue running this marathon. I am testing next week in DC and find myself not taking the test as seriously as I should or normally do. I am staying at a dump in Crystal City (the Americana), taking the train to OPM and Embassy Suites and have not looked at any material regarding the SI or LBMT. I will take the test and give it my best shot at the time. If I happen to get on the register and get on a cert I will have to make a decision at that time and see where I am with my current employment and decide. Good luck to you in what you decide to do.
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Post by moopigsdad on Aug 1, 2013 10:00:31 GMT -5
Am I the only one who is finding it ironic that there are thousands of people clamoring to get what many say is a crappy job??? It is indeed ironic. The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence. I think frustration sets in for some present ALJs and they write some negative posts here, which in turn makes some deciding on whether to pursue the position or not more difficult. I am sure many of those who are now retired ALJs look back on their days as an ALJ and say it wasn't that bad after all. There is good and bad at every job. Sometimes, the bad outweighs the good and other times the good outweighs the bad. I think some people get beaten down by the process and give up making their job just awful to deal with on a daily basis. It's all a matter of prospective and whether you see the glass half-full or half-empty.
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