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Post by WhereIsTheFrontDoor on Apr 30, 2014 10:52:36 GMT -5
I have read those posts, which are largely based on speculation and assumption. Heck, this thread has the word "Rumor" in the title. I am just asking a question that has not been asked.
ODAR doesn't have to hire ALJs. If ODAR does not request a cert based off a process it deems flawed, then OPM may listen more closely to its concerns the next time it requests a register. Especially if ODAR tells those calling it about delays that it does not feel comfortable requesting names off of this register due to the new process OPM enacted.
I am in the same boat as almost all of you, so please don't take my question as trolling.
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Post by anotherfed on Apr 30, 2014 11:04:41 GMT -5
In other words, what if you threw a Register and nobody came? I don't think that would be possible. As much money as has been spent on developing, conducting, and evaluating the Register testing process, OPM cannot throw out the 2014 Register. I suppose that ODAR could decide not to play, but would need to deal with the vacancies somehow. Perhaps ODAR will create a new position that does not draw from the Register. But I would think that process also would be a long and costly one to develop.
I think ODAR is just trying to decide how to conform the new OPM process into the hiring paradigm with which ODAR is most comfortable. The old process allowed ODAR to go down the list far enough to reach their preferred people. Essentially, if the rumors about the request for 5-6 applicants per position are accurate, ODAR will be doing the same thing in a different way. 90 vacancies x 3 applicants = 270, 45 certs x 6 applicants = 270 (assuming each cert request is for a unique name). In fact, with this new cert process, ODAR may be able to reach even further into the Register. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Post by funkyodar on Apr 30, 2014 11:12:58 GMT -5
There is simply no way odar doesn't hire the 90 this year. They need them, but that doesn't even matter. The fact is they are budgeted and have the funds. No federal agency in history has ever failed to use money they have been given to my knowledge. That's why my office has approximately 47,000 cases of hand sanitizer overflowing the supply room.
The money is there and its targeted for 90 alj hires this fiscal. No way they don't use it. And, as others pointed out, the only way to hire for them is this register. So it may take a while and they may not like it, but its getting done.
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Post by moopigsdad on Apr 30, 2014 11:14:19 GMT -5
Thanks anotherfed, you said it well. There is no way SSA is not using the new Register to hire ALJs. Too much time and money has been invested in the new Register to just throw it out and start over again. SSA was involved in the creation of testing for this Register.
I think some people just need to calm down and take it easy because good things come to those who wait. If six months or a year goes by and there is no hiring by SSA, then I would say we have a problem. We haven't reached that stage. It's only been a little over a month since the NORs were released. Everyone is in a hurry nowadays. Everything isn't based upon quick action or a twenty second sound bite, some things take a little time to get it right. Be patient.
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 30, 2014 11:22:24 GMT -5
I have read those posts, which are largely based on speculation and assumption. Heck, this thread has the word "Rumor" in the title. I am just asking a question that has not been asked. ODAR doesn't have to hire ALJs. If ODAR does not request a cert based off a process it deems flawed, then OPM may listen more closely to its concerns the next time it requests a register. Especially if ODAR tells those calling it about delays that it does not feel comfortable requesting names off of this register due to the new process OPM enacted. I am in the same boat as almost all of you, with the exception of those high scoring jerks. So please don't take my question as trolling. If I wanted to do that, I would start a post stating I received a notification from ODAR asking for references. For the reasons stated above, oh, yes, they do. And it will happen. Your original question that brought you out of lurkdom has an all too obvious answer. ODAR was VERY INVOLVED in the development of this new process. If (and that's a big if) it didn't turn out the way they hoped, it's on them, at least in part. OPM didn't set this whole thing up in a vacuum. As a long time lurker, you should know that. You've changed your handle already? Good grief.
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Post by hopefalj on Apr 30, 2014 11:28:24 GMT -5
I have read those posts, which are largely based on speculation and assumption. Heck, this thread has the word "Rumor" in the title. I am just asking a question that has not been asked. ODAR doesn't have to hire ALJs. If ODAR does not request a cert based off a process it deems flawed, then OPM may listen more closely to its concerns the next time it requests a register. Especially if ODAR tells those calling it about delays that it does not feel comfortable requesting names off of this register due to the new process OPM enacted. I am in the same boat as almost all of you, with the exception of those high scoring jerks. So please don't take my question as trolling. If I wanted to do that, I would start a post stating I received a notification from ODAR asking for references. This would make sense if OPM wasn't going to get paid. However, they will still get their money regardless of whether SSA requests a certificate or not. I suppose they might not get as much, but out of the many, many functions OPM bills the agencies utilizing the ALJ program, I don't believe issuing a certificate is nearly as substantial a revenue generator as the rest of the ALJ program is. The bulk of those costs will go to developing and administering the ALJ examination, creating the register, maintaining the register, handling appeals, communicating with candidates, and general administrative overhead for the personnel and building space devoted to the ALJ program. It's like hiring a company to replace your HVAC for $10,000 and then telling them you're not going to pay them $100 annually to service that equipment over the next 3-4 years before replacing the entire system at $10,000 again.
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Post by FlaTreeFarm on Apr 30, 2014 11:29:27 GMT -5
Thanks anotherfed, you said it well. There is no way SSA is not using the new Register to hire ALJs. Too much time and money has been invested in the new Register to just throw it out and start over again. SSA was involved in the creation of testing for this Register. I think some people just need to calm down and take it easy because good things come to those who wait. If six months or a year goes by and there is no hiring by SSA, then I would say we have a problem. We haven't reached that stage. It's only been a little over a month since the NORs were released. Everyone is in a hurry nowadays. Everything isn't based upon quick action or a twenty second sound bite, some things take a little time to get it right. Be patient. Heck, in the Government sometimes we take a lot of time even when we don't get it right!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 12:01:37 GMT -5
And I am not DLOTS. Just a long time lurker. Some of the threads on here made mention of ODAR not being happy with the new process. What better way to show your opposition to it than by boycotting or not using it? You may be on to something Stupid. Makes perfect sense. And keep in mind, ODAR might still be upset that OPM botched the whole written demonstration grading.
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Post by FlaTreeFarm on Apr 30, 2014 12:14:31 GMT -5
Agree with the theories or not, I say this discussion is much more interesting than the radio silence! Now we just need to hear from Radoy!
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Post by moopigsdad on Apr 30, 2014 12:18:56 GMT -5
Agree with the theories or not, I say this discussion is much more interesting than the radio silence! Now we just need to hear from Radoy! Are you sure we haven't already heard from him here (as a new contributor again) ??
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 30, 2014 12:29:10 GMT -5
And I am not DLOTS. Just a long time lurker. Some of the threads on here made mention of ODAR not being happy with the new process. What better way to show your opposition to it than by boycotting or not using it? You may be on to something Stupid. Makes perfect sense. And keep in mind, ODAR might still be upset that OPM botched the whole written demonstration grading. Overstatement, and speculation, perhaps? We have no real evidence beyond anecdotal evidence of "botching" and, by extension, no evidence that ODAR is upset about it.
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Post by luckylady2 on Apr 30, 2014 12:31:17 GMT -5
ODAR doesn't have to hire ALJs. If ODAR does not request a cert based off a process it deems flawed, then OPM may listen more closely to its concerns the next time it requests a register. Especially if ODAR tells those calling it about delays that it does not feel comfortable requesting names off of this register due to the new process OPM enacted. Yeah except that's not really the case in government. Government has to do its mission & really does care whether it has enough people to do it. Then there's the budget issue. If a agency or portion thereof doesn't use its budgeted funds, it can't go asking Congress for more & usually gets its budget cut by the amount it didn't use. Then there's the legal structure of the process. OPM regs are only a part of the process & can be worked out. For real change, SSA would have to go to Congress & ask for a big change. Given current Congressional inertia & the horrible field days in the press about "changing Social Security" this is very unlikely to happen. So ODAR really sorta DOES have to hire ALJs, like yesterday. I'm sure 99%+ of ODAR would rather hire new ALJs & get along with their business than haggle with OPM about their regs & boycott a process they must - absent a sweeping change dictated by Congress - follow.
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Post by FlaTreeFarm on Apr 30, 2014 12:50:13 GMT -5
You may be on to something Stupid. Makes perfect sense. And keep in mind, ODAR might still be upset that OPM botched the whole written demonstration grading. Overstatement, and speculation, perhaps? We have no real evidence beyond anecdotal evidence of "botching" and, by extension, no evidence that ODAR is upset about it. I could be wrong, but I think this was a reference to the last time we heard from DLOTS. I think the botched grading theory (as stated by DLOTS) was pretty much refuted by the release of the NORS soon thereafter.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 12:52:03 GMT -5
You may be on to something Stupid. Makes perfect sense. And keep in mind, ODAR might still be upset that OPM botched the whole written demonstration grading. Overstatement, and speculation, perhaps? We have no real evidence beyond anecdotal evidence of "botching" and, by extension, no evidence that ODAR is upset about it. Overstatement and speculation? No. Facetious? yes
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Post by valkyrie on Apr 30, 2014 12:55:54 GMT -5
This is not intended to respond to the ridiculous notion that ODAR might not use the register out of protest. Instead this is just a very mundane reminder that every step in this process will likely take several more weeks than you think it will, so there is no use in getting yourselves into a tizzy over the wait. We all did the same thing before where we would make educated guesses as to when the initial application would be processed, when the OPM interviews and written testing would begin, and end, when the scores would come out, when the cert would be issued, and finally when the offers would begin. All of our guesses were several weeks too early. What we found out later through unofficial channels was that sometimes things were on time, and sometimes a key player was out on leave for a couple of weeks, or another key player was sick for a week.
Sometimes your tire blows out because you ran over a nail, no matter how much you think your wife wants you dead.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Apr 30, 2014 13:10:45 GMT -5
Sometimes your tire blows out because you ran over a nail, no matter how much you think your wife wants you dead. This may replace one of my fav idioms: "When you hear hoofbeats in the night, suspect horses, not zebras."
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Post by FlaTreeFarm on Apr 30, 2014 13:20:12 GMT -5
Sometimes your tire blows out because you ran over a nail, no matter how much you think your wife wants you dead. This may replace one of my fav idioms: "When you hear hoofbeats in the night, suspect horses, not zebras." ... unless, of course, you happen to be in Africa!
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 14:04:56 GMT -5
Sometimes your tire blows out because you ran over a nail, no matter how much you think your wife wants you dead. Have you been emailing my wife?
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 14:08:32 GMT -5
What are the odds ODAR declines to use this register for a cert? Welcome to the board, but Dude, you jump into a board conversation about as lightly as I have done in the past. But, Funky and the rest have it right, Feds don't give up budget $$$ for any reason. IMHO
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2014 14:09:54 GMT -5
Back to Court, waiting on a jury verdict in felony sex case.
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