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Post by privateatty on May 7, 2014 16:27:00 GMT -5
A point to be made about references that I have made in the past. References who are not in SSA or have been (including almost all outsiders) may not appreciate that what they may think is a good comment or reference and thus may tank you.
While I am not with direct knowledge, this point has been seconded by a few ODAR ALJs here.
Being a solo/small firm practitioner in the private sector may well mean that you have all the attributes of a few well known posters here: recent past and present. Ambitious, strong willed, works best alone and can argue imminent snowfall in the Gobi Desert. These attributes, I think I can safely say, are not the qualities Puzzle Palace are looking for and may result in you being thrice struck. Moreover, lest ye forget, Puzzle Palace is not interested in populating AALJ.
As to how this will all work out in counseling your references, well, I leave that in your good hands. I had to work with opposing counsel who would not listen to me even if I offered up some comments--which I did not do.
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Post by funkyodar on May 7, 2014 16:28:50 GMT -5
Aljs are still acceptable.
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Post by mch135 on May 7, 2014 16:32:04 GMT -5
Do prior employers get asked the same questions as the references? If not it's kind of a shame b/c some of them would've been on my reference list but for the duplication prohibition.
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Post by 71stretch on May 7, 2014 16:33:48 GMT -5
Do prior employers get asked the same questions as the references? If not it's kind of a shame b/c some of them would've been on my reference list but for the duplication prohibition. Historically, yes.
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Post by 71stretch on May 7, 2014 16:36:55 GMT -5
Aljs are still acceptable. Good. And, everyone should remember, a judicial reference DOES NOT have to be a judge who presided over one of your cases. None of the judicial references I used fit in that category. One has been a friend since our first day of law school, one is a former supervisor, but I didn't have to use her as a supervisor since the employment part only goes back ten years, the third is a fellow ALJ.
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Post by dpageks on May 7, 2014 17:08:26 GMT -5
I must say dpageks you are looking very dapper these days. Is that what you will be wearing to your interview? Well thank you very much, Ok1956. I hope I can land an interview. Most of my suits and my shirts are similar, so I will be wearing something close. Although, I just changed my avatar to an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor--Marine Corps Emblem (for those that are not familiar with it).
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Post by ok1956 on May 7, 2014 17:11:40 GMT -5
I must say dpageks you are looking very dapper these days. Is that what you will be wearing to your interview? Well thank you very much, Ok1956. I hope I can land an interview. Most of my suits and my shirts are similar, so I will be wearing something close. Although, I just changed my avatar to an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor--Marine Corps Emblem (for those that are not familiar with it).
And now my compliment won't make sense LOL
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Post by mamaru on May 7, 2014 17:30:20 GMT -5
I would be interested in your thoughts with the credentials vs. what they say. In the Judge category I have one Judge who I have appeared before twice. In my practice you rarely appear before the same judge. He remembers one of the cases and will say positive things. However, he really does not know me. As he fits the judicial category, I figured it is better to use him than come up short on Judicial references. What do you all think? This problem all stems from the one judge I appeared before the most in the Navy has fallen off the face of the earth. Ugh!!! Or in my case, the one Navy judge I appeared before quite frequently in the last 5 years was sitting in the WD/LBMT testing room on the same day -YIKES!!. And you just know they would tank me in the reference phone call, just so they could get the ALJ gig (I believe this person would do this, quite frankly, and I kinda hope he doesn't make it because of this). I had to reach back about 12 years, but the judges do remember you, and are happy to provide references. Don't forget, you could use an arbitrator/administrative judge/hearing officer type. How about an article 32 officer? Or a fellow JAG who is/was recently on the bench? You need not have practiced before them - if they can speak about your temperament, workload, etc., their opinion is good too! I would think twice before asking a labor arbitrator unless you don't appear before them.
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Post by hopefalj on May 7, 2014 18:02:11 GMT -5
Do prior employers get asked the same questions as the references? If not it's kind of a shame b/c some of them would've been on my reference list but for the duplication prohibition. Another question is how would one dodge a vindictive former supervisor? Or if you've only been practicing for only 11 years, is putting your McDonald's manager from your senior year of college 14-15 years ago necessary? The latter question might be answered if I look more closely at the reference form, and if that's the case, don't worry about responding.
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NP
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Post by NP on May 7, 2014 18:29:27 GMT -5
And ALJs are still fine. I just don't know any :/
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 18:44:10 GMT -5
My references are sitting federal judges I tried cases before...there is no way I feel comfortable "prepping them".
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Post by 71stretch on May 7, 2014 18:54:25 GMT -5
Hopeful, I was wondering the same thing about non-legal jobs, as I've only been practicing 9 years. I would have no idea where to find info for a few part-time jobs from college. It says "all employment," though. I think you just list them and explain that you have no way to put them in contact with supervisors from back then. I don't think that will be a problem.
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Post by 71stretch on May 7, 2014 18:57:22 GMT -5
Do prior employers get asked the same questions as the references? If not it's kind of a shame b/c some of them would've been on my reference list but for the duplication prohibition. Another question is how would one dodge a vindictive former supervisor? Or if you've only been practicing for only 11 years, is putting your McDonald's manager from your senior year of college 14-15 years ago necessary? The latter question might be answered if I look more closely at the reference form, and if that's the case, don't worry about responding. If the form asks you to go back 15 years, then you need to do that. You can say your supervisor is no longer there. I will say that I don't think any of this sort of reference would be contacted anyway, but you need to provide ODAR what they asked for as best you can. All this makes me glad I've had the same job for nearly 20 years.
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Post by privateatty on May 7, 2014 19:58:32 GMT -5
My references are sitting federal judges I tried cases before...there is no way I feel comfortable "prepping them". Good luck! I think sitting federal judges would "get it" though. I also think a thank you card via snail mail would be classy, IMHO.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2014 20:16:35 GMT -5
I only have two cities, I may as well give up after seeing those polls.
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Post by mch135 on May 7, 2014 20:57:03 GMT -5
Hopeful, I was wondering the same thing about non-legal jobs, as I've only been practicing 9 years. I would have no idea where to find info for a few part-time jobs from college. It says "all employment," though. I too had to include some college jobs and I just looked back at my bar application for the list and where I knew the business had closed or the supervisor wasn't available I just said so.
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Post by dpageks on May 7, 2014 20:58:41 GMT -5
Well thank you very much, Ok1956. I hope I can land an interview. Most of my suits and my shirts are similar, so I will be wearing something close. Although, I just changed my avatar to an Eagle, Globe, and Anchor--Marine Corps Emblem (for those that are not familiar with it).
And now my compliment won't make sense LOL Sorry, I changed my pick before I saw your post. We're getting ready to be hit by some serious thunderstorms; looks like spring has arrived.
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wayne
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Post by wayne on May 12, 2014 22:48:25 GMT -5
One of the Judges on my list once told my wife that I was full of "fire and brimstone" in his Courtroom. He meant that as a compliment, but the comments on this board make me wonder if I should ask that Judge to not say that kind of thing when contacted by the SSA contractor. It seems to me that a lawyer who zealously represents his clients is doing his job. I would think ODAR would want to hire an ALJ who does his/her job to the best of his/her ability. If I ask that Judge to not say anything like that when contacted about my ALJ application, then the Judge might also hesitate to say other nice things about me and wind up being a lukewarm reference. I find it hard to believe that a Judge trying to compliment a lawyer by saying how zealously the lawyer represents his clients would be used as a reason to not hire that lawyer. I am not a trouble maker, I just try to provide the best possible representation for my clients, which is what the clients pay me to do. The more I think about it, I am not going to ask that Judge to tone down his remarks about me, and I just hope that ODAR (or Medicare) will understand that I will use that same energy and enthusiasm to do the best possible job for them if I am hired.
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Post by agilitymom on May 14, 2014 12:56:28 GMT -5
Radric - did you receive an extension for submitting documents? Weren't they due last Friday...or did we all have different due dates?
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Post by 71stretch on May 14, 2014 12:58:55 GMT -5
Regarding the 9 references, I can find 3 ALJs and 3 adversaries, but I am not sure who we can use as professional references. Can we use current or former co-workers? How about personal friends who are attorneys? Since I am an insider, would other Decision Writers be OK? Personal friends who are lawyers and can answer the questions (which have not changed), sure. Former coworkers who are lawyers and can answer the questions, yes. Fellow decision writers would be the last choice of the three.
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