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Post by mamaru on Jun 6, 2014 23:15:46 GMT -5
Are you saying that, as a practical matter, OMHA needs to beat SSA in the race to make offers in order to get the people it wants most from the round of interviews already completed? That makes some sense. It also makes sense that if OMHA is not excited about the ten pointers it has interviewed it might hold back and see who is left after SSA extends offers. It does not make sense that there is some kind of rule or agreement that would require OMHA go first, keeping in mind there are hundreds of qualified ALJ candidates waiting in the wings.
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Post by futuressaalj on Jun 7, 2014 1:15:54 GMT -5
Steve, do you know if there is a memorandum of agreement between OMHA and SSA that gives OMHA first dibs? Or do they have automatic first dibs because they pulled their cert first? The polling on this board shows that no one believes OMHA to be a position preferable to ODAR -- in large part because OMHA isn't going to pay relocation expenses. I find it hard to believe that very many people would decline an earlier offer from ODAR in order to see if they get a later offer from OMHA. It's for that reason I believe OMHA will have to hire first. That makes sense. OMHA is definately handicapped when compred to SSA by their refusal to pay for relocation costs when they can and should. But if they swoop in and grab folks before SSA offers then they level the playing field and you are right, turning down an offer would be a great risk for many but I suppose there are a couple of folks here that are going to take the gamble and wait for SSA.
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Post by futuressaalj on Jun 7, 2014 1:17:10 GMT -5
Are you saying that, as a practical matter, OMHA needs to beat SSA in the race to make offers in order to get the people it wants most from the round of interviews already completed? That makes some sense. It also makes sense that if OMHA is not excited about the ten pointers it has interviewed it might hold back and see who is left after SSA extends offers. It does not make sense that there is some kind of rule or agreement that would require OMHA go first, keeping in mind there are hundreds of qualified ALJ candidates waiting in the wings. Anyway you look at it, OMHA will get their slots filled. The demand for the job is greater than the slots available.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 7, 2014 5:15:44 GMT -5
The polling on this board shows that no one believes OMHA to be a position preferable to ODAR -- in large part because OMHA isn't going to pay relocation expenses. I find it hard to believe that very many people would decline an earlier offer from ODAR in order to see if they get a later offer from OMHA. It's for that reason I believe OMHA will have to hire first. That makes sense. OMHA is definately handicapped when compred to SSA by their refusal to pay for relocation costs when they can and should. But if they swoop in and grab folks before SSA offers then they level the playing field and you are right, turning down an offer would be a great risk for many but I suppose there are a couple of folks here that are going to take the gamble and wait for SSA. Would that "couple of folks" include you future? You don't have to answer as I think I know the answer.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 7, 2014 7:56:18 GMT -5
Only ODAR will pay relo as they have the budget for it. To presume another agency "can and should" is just that. To move is a huge expense and while we can agree that government attorneys, in a perfect world, should be subsidized, look at it from the agency perspective: is your hire worth the annual cost of a clerk? Both the government attorney and the private one must be trained. When you become an ALJ and want to go to another Agency you will pay for your relo.
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Post by futuressaalj on Jun 7, 2014 9:54:01 GMT -5
Only ODAR will pay relo as they have the budget for it. To presume another agency "can and should" is just that. To move is a huge expense and while we can agree that government attorneys, in a perfect world, should be subsidized, look at it from the agency perspective: is your hire worth the annual cost of a clerk? Both the government attorney and the private one must be trained. When you become an ALJ and want to go to another Agency you will pay for your relo. I agree that "san and should" does not translate into a must. Especially when the demand for the job is so great. But if a candidate receives two offers one with relocation and one without, I believe the agency that offers relo will be the choice 9 out of 10 times. But not a big worry for an agency like OMHA because they for any candidate that turns down the job there are 99 other candidates in the waiting who are ready willing and able to jump on the job without any relo costs.
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Post by anotherfed on Jun 7, 2014 10:59:56 GMT -5
There is always next week! Fingers crossed! To be clear, if anyone was going to crash and burn, it would've been me, so I feel pretty safe joking about next week's interviews. If you didn't have an unfortunate high heel incident, I'm sure you were great. I hope they don't grade for poise and grace, because I'm likely to fall on my face -- so I've been practicing in my big girl shoes for when (fingers crossed) I make the next cert.
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Post by hopefalj on Jun 7, 2014 11:16:45 GMT -5
Only ODAR will pay relo as they have the budget for it. To presume another agency "can and should" is just that. To move is a huge expense and while we can agree that government attorneys, in a perfect world, should be subsidized, look at it from the agency perspective: is your hire worth the annual cost of a clerk? Both the government attorney and the private one must be trained. When you become an ALJ and want to go to another Agency you will pay for your relo. I agree that "san and should" translates into a must. Especially when the demand for the job is so great. But if a candidate receives two offers one with relocation and one without, I believe the agency that offers relo will be the choice 9 out of 10 times. But not a big worry for an agency like OMHA because they for any candidate that turns down the job there are 99 other candidates in the waiting who are ready willing and able to jump on the job without any relo costs. I know you've been pretty vocal about the relocation expenses in the past, which is great. Is it safe to assume that you've narrowed your SSA GAL down to offices you do not believe you would transfer from in the short term? Because if you accept a position at SSA and then transfer to another office a year or two later, what are you really gaining with the relocation?
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Post by futuressaalj on Jun 7, 2014 11:54:23 GMT -5
I agree that "san and should" translates into a must. Especially when the demand for the job is so great. But if a candidate receives two offers one with relocation and one without, I believe the agency that offers relo will be the choice 9 out of 10 times. But not a big worry for an agency like OMHA because they for any candidate that turns down the job there are 99 other candidates in the waiting who are ready willing and able to jump on the job without any relo costs. I know you've been pretty vocal about the relocation expenses in the past, which is great. Is it safe to assume that you've narrowed your SSA GAL down to offices you do not believe you would transfer from in the short term? Because if you accept a position at SSA and then transfer to another office a year or two later, what are you really gaining with the relocation? Hopeful, there is a simple explanation, I am upside down in my current house. Closing costs reimbursement goes a long way. Once rid of my current house I will take any job without any relo costs. If I were to get an offer from OMHA, I will have to think long and hard about it and could probably put my house up for rent and wait to see if in a few years I can get out of it without having to write a check at closing.
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Post by trickbag on Jun 7, 2014 16:34:58 GMT -5
Have a great vacation! Just a random question: it appears ODAR interviews will be concluded next week. It seems ODAR has concluded all the reference checks and other background investigation that they are going to do before people are appointed. IF it is true that offers will not be extended until the end of July, what will ODAR be doing for the next 6 or 7 weeks? They *are* still working through the reference checks...
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 7, 2014 20:36:52 GMT -5
the one thing no one can contest though is this time things are different and historical norms may not be applicable. For instance, i heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another ( ) that we shouldnt expect a mass of offers to come out over one or two days as they have in the past. The theory being that this new cert procedure makes someone who declines an offer muy muy influential. Whereas before, if Candi Date was offered East Crapland and turns it down, no big deal. They just go to number 91 on their internal list and make the offer to that person if EC was on their gal. Under the new process, Candi's declination means they can only go to the next one on that particular cert. So, presumably they will need to trickle out the offers and get an acceptance for the first before they move to the second. We may be in for several days or weeks of people reporting offers instead of the one or two days of mass activity seen in the past. Or maybe not. Think I will go ahead and have one of those froufrou drinks AF recommended as a prearrival mood setter... Perhaps this is why they had people rank cities? It makes it easier to figure out who "wants" to be where and may give ODAR some idea the order in which to notify candidates.
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Post by Missundaztood on Jun 7, 2014 21:10:32 GMT -5
To be clear, if anyone was going to crash and burn, it would've been me, so I feel pretty safe joking about next week's interviews. If you didn't have an unfortunate high heel incident, I'm sure you were great. I hope they don't grade for poise and grace, because I'm likely to fall on my face -- so I've been practicing in my big girl shoes for when (fingers crossed) I make the next cert. LOL! No incident with the shoes. But I did have a stockings situation. Had to MacGyver my pantyhose. Pretty sure I should at least get a "recommended" for my problem-solving skills. But then again, I didn't confess during my interview. Best if they don't know...
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Post by gary on Jun 7, 2014 22:01:46 GMT -5
If you didn't have an unfortunate high heel incident, I'm sure you were great. I hope they don't grade for poise and grace, because I'm likely to fall on my face -- so I've been practicing in my big girl shoes for when (fingers crossed) I make the next cert. LOL! No incident with the shoes. But I did have a stockings situation. Had to MacGyver my pantyhose. Pretty sure I should at least get a "recommended" for my problem-solving skills. But then again, I didn't confess during my interview. Best if they don't know... Good thing you didn't MacGruber them and blow your self up.
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NP
Full Member
Posts: 82
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Post by NP on Jun 9, 2014 15:10:21 GMT -5
I have a couple of logistical questions. If you go through the interview process and don't get an offer this time, do you interview again if you make the second or subsequent certs? Or will the results of this interview follow you through the rest of the process? Stated another way, if you get a "don't recommend" this time, have you totally blown it, or is it possible to get another chance? (I don't think I did this - yet, anyway - I'm just curious how it works.)
Also, if you turn down a city, can you be offered another city in the same hiring round? Or if you turn down one offer for this round, do you have to wait until the second cert to potentially get another offer?
Thanks!
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 9, 2014 15:25:02 GMT -5
I have a couple of logistical questions. If you go through the interview process and don't get an offer this time, do you interview again if you make the second or subsequent certs? Or will the results of this interview follow you through the rest of the process? Stated another way, if you get a "don't recommend" this time, have you totally blown it, or is it possible to get another chance? (I don't think I did this - yet, anyway - I'm just curious how it works.) Also, if you turn down a city, can you be offered another city in the same hiring round? Or if you turn down one offer for this round, do you have to wait until the second cert to potentially get another offer? Thanks! Here are some answers bulldog. If you receive a "not recommend" as a result of your ODAR interview it is essentially over. You only receive one interview per Register (including refreshes). So, you better make a good impression. No matter how many more certs are called and you are on, there will be no more interviews for you. As to the second question, if you refuse an offer, while essentially it doesn't mean you couldn't be given another offer by SSA/ODAR, it is not likely you will be given another chance. This is why when you are asked to choose by check mark what cities you are willing to work at and rank them by preference prior to the interview process, it is important that you truly know which ones you will not accept an offer to work at. Can you receive another offer at a subsequent cert? Technically yes, but it is not likely to happen because you would be considered a person who stated they would take a location and then changed their mind. So, absent a very good reason (like just learning of a dying parent or spouse or significant family issue) you are not likely to receive another offer after you turned one down to a location you stated you would accept.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 9, 2014 15:32:25 GMT -5
I have a couple of logistical questions. If you go through the interview process and don't get an offer this time, do you interview again if you make the second or subsequent certs? Or will the results of this interview follow you through the rest of the process? Stated another way, if you get a "don't recommend" this time, have you totally blown it, or is it possible to get another chance? (I don't think I did this - yet, anyway - I'm just curious how it works.) Also, if you turn down a city, can you be offered another city in the same hiring round? Or if you turn down one offer for this round, do you have to wait until the second cert to potentially get another offer? Thanks! Even though there are separate certs for each city now, if you turn down a city in this round of hires, I don't think you are going to get a second chance on another city in the same round of hires. I think the "take it or leave it" philosophy from back when there was only one cert will carry over. No one is going to get a choice between two or more cities now, just like they didn't get it before. So, you would have to wait for the next round of hiring (which is a better way to describe it now, since there's more than one cert) to get another chance. Turning them down in the first round has to have some negative effect the second time around- how much, who knows. That's why it's so important to choose your GAL carefully.
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Post by privateatty on Jun 9, 2014 16:29:50 GMT -5
I don't think turning down an offer necessarily prevents them from considering you in the future; I just don't think it happens all that often. The rule is there for a reason. The Agency just wants to put people where they are willing to go; I doubt turning down an offer on the first cert will take your name out of the running in the future. I agree that you'll get one offer per cert. Don't fantasize about turning down someplace you hate just for them to say, "o.k., then how about your dream city?." I also have to agree that the "don't recommend" is pretty fatal, but I think that is pretty rare. Most people will fall into the "recommend" and a few into the "highly recommend." Finally, there's only one interview. You won't get a second crack at it until they create a new Register. No pressure, right? Your answer may be germane to the present, but the past history of this Board and what I know of ALJ hiring is such that there have been hundreds of applicants SSA has passed on. Whether they were thrice-struck, bombed the interview or couldn't muster any reference support ultimately makes no difference--they didn't get the job and never will. SSA is the gate by which 95% of all ALjs must pass. This 2014 class with the majority of those interviewing getting an offer is unprecedented in the last seven years and the years of the Azdell litigation drought that preceded it. While you can all take a well-earned bow and bask in the reflected glory, to those on these pages who don't get a call in the coming months or next year, whether they are a "don't recommend" or they just got in the way will make little difference. Good luck.
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Post by noweeman on Jun 10, 2014 6:36:22 GMT -5
Oh good - glad you mentioned "thrice struck" because I've been meaning to ask for a while. That term gets used so often, I've been reluctant to ask what it means, thinking at some point it would make sense in context. But I give up. So, what does it mean to be three-struck?
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Post by westernalj on Jun 10, 2014 7:12:00 GMT -5
If SSA actually considers you three times, in other words if you make the top three for a location, and if SSA doesn't select you, SSA can choose to (but does not have to) tell OPM that you've been three struck. That means OPM will not submit your name to SSA again, so you don't make another SSA cert.
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Post by cubbietax on Jun 10, 2014 7:28:01 GMT -5
On my way to Falls Church for interview tomorrow. I rarely fly. I don't know how you people who travel a lot deal with the airport BS all of the time. Ugh:(
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