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Post by hopefalj on Apr 29, 2015 13:05:05 GMT -5
It also allows someone on the current register to update their GAL and add locations, which is why a refresh might happen sooner than later. It would accomplish three things: (1) extinguish most of the underlying appeals by having those folks choose to begin the process anew; (2) allow current folks to expand their GALs to become more reachable if they choose and continued to let ODAR hire while the new applicants run the gauntlet; and (3) refreshes the register with a bunch more folks a year or two down the road once ODAR has gone through the current register. Because of (1), OPM might be more amenable to refreshing than in years past given the thousands of likely appeals pending. A refresh wouldn't necessarily extinguish the appeals. A refresh doesn't say those on the Register or who tried to get on the Register must start over. Those appeals would not go away hopefalj. Only if the applicant decided to start the process over would the appeal be moot. Only the closing of the existing Register would extinguish those appeals and anyone who is on the present Register. OPM is not going to do that or there will be no candidates for SSA to choose from for offers. Now, if my appeal was pending from the first or second stage I would start over, but if my appeal was from the third stage, I might want to take my chances on the appeal. I agree that it wouldn't extinguish all of the appeals, which is why I said most. The question, I suppose, is what percentage of folks awaiting appeals right now would rather start fresh than continue waiting indefinitely? I agree with what you would do in terms of appeal. But if the phase 1 and 2 folks reapply, you're likely looking at probably 3000+ appeals instantly off the ledger, which is not insignificant.
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Post by thankful1 on Apr 29, 2015 13:23:22 GMT -5
No, the register doesn't expire until OPM decides it needs a new one, and puts out a notice to hire for a new register. This register took just about exactly a year to build and at its beginning had somewhere in the range of 800-900 people on it. There's still lots of names sitting on the register - all people that OPM has certified as being capable of filling an ALJ position. So it's not likely that OPM will retire or "expire" the current register at the end of this year (fiscal (Sept 30) or calendar). I concur with LuckyLady. It was painfully slow to create this register. Much new ground was broken during the process. The purpose of the "improved" process, as I understand it, was to a have a register populated by people who are absolutely 100 percent qualified to be excellent Administrative Law Judges for any agency. Every person on this register is supremely qualified -- the variation in scores exists solely for the hiring process -- the scores in no way reflect any relative ability or fitness to do the job. As a result, I think OPM will be content to hang on and refresh this register rather than redo it. Perhaps one factor that could come into play (this is just a wag) is feedback OPM gets on the actual candidates who have been hired. If the feedback is positive, perhaps the register lives longer. If the feedback is negative, perhaps it lives a shorter life. I don't even know if OPM would get feedback on the general quality of the hires as a whole, so, who knows . . .
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Post by mikeinthehills on Apr 29, 2015 13:27:02 GMT -5
Your assumption regarding the Register if the final number is correct would seem to be spot on, however I sincerely think the Register is somewhere between 800 and 1200 total. So, if the total count is 1200, there would be no need for a refresh. Remember a lot of people with only very limited GALs have never been interviewed yet. Of course, MPD, if they have very limited GALs, they might not ever be up for an opening (for example, if someone only had Honolulu and D.C.), which would essentially discount them as a presence on the register, moving the effective number back downwards. At the time, I was very interested in the number of people who made it to DC for testing and the number who made the final register. In the fall of 2013 when people were testing in DC, even using the most generous assumptions, I never got over 1,100 in DC in total, and the number was likely considerably less. Subtract the 25% (or more) who were cut after DC when the final register was set, and you get very close to Loopstock's estimate of 800 (or fewer).
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Post by ibnlurkin on Apr 29, 2015 13:28:43 GMT -5
i hate to be morbid ... but people will literally die on the register...or otherwise become completely disconnected from their interest in this opportunity as time goes on
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Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 29, 2015 13:37:23 GMT -5
i hate to be morbid ... but people will literally die on the register...or otherwise become completely disconnected from their interest in this opportunity as time goes on That's not good.
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 29, 2015 13:46:47 GMT -5
If there were 800 people on the current register when it was first established, when the NORs were released in March 2014, that seems like a higher-end estimate. And now about 150 of those 800 (or less) have been hired (roughly) with another 100 to go this year, and 250 more in 2016. ODAR has already interviewed a ton of folks. It's a simple mathematical equlation. Hiring 250 out of 800 (or less) would seriously deplete the current register. Once the 250 hires this year are done, that puts the register at 550 (or less). Hiring another 250 folks in 2016, out of the remaining 550 (or less), would seem like a stretch. I think it's a virtual certainty that they'd want a register refresh in very early 2016. That would be A) almost 3 years since the register was first advertised and 2 years after it was finalized, and B) in time to give ODAR more prospective ALJ candidates for the big 2016 hiring push. I know a lot of people bounced for very frivolous reasons at the first cut level (back in early 2013), who I'd love to see get a fresh shot on a register refresh. Hopefully soon. But we do not KNOW there are only 800-900 on the register. Even high management at ODAR has stated repeatedly that OPM has not disclosed how many are on the register. There could be many more. I think the only real solid evidence we have about the size of the register is the general information we have about the number of people that took the WD/SI. IRC that guesstimate was about 1200. (see aljdiscussion.proboards.com/thread/2250/room-1350-registry-size-math) We can conclude that there were fewer people on the register than that after NORs were released because we know folks who got cut at that phase. The question OPM has to deal really isn't how many people are on the register though. It is how many useful people are on the register. If your GAL is limited to San Diego, San Francisco, Seattle, and Denver then you are not useful to OPM because your golden ticket isn't going to be punchable.* That is the purpose of my poll to see how much deeper they can dive in some locations. * I want to be clear I am in no way making a statement about anybody's ability or potential as an ALJ I am making a statement about limited GALs and their affect on the register.
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Post by sealaw90 on Apr 29, 2015 13:49:30 GMT -5
i hate to be morbid ... but people will literally die on the register...or otherwise become completely disconnected from their interest in this opportunity as time goes on That's not good. Dying isn't good, but losing interest is ok with me...they weren't serious about the job anyway! As some avatars have been known to say, there's less people between me and getting the job...
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 29, 2015 13:59:37 GMT -5
That's not good. Dying isn't good, but losing interest is ok with me...they weren't serious about the job anyway! As some avatars have been known to say, there's less people between me and getting the job... I figure between life changes, retirements, and sadly deaths the register loses a candidate every two to three weeks. Think about the person in the January ALJ class who quit midway through the first week because they got a better offer. This has been a long strange trip and I think some people just get off the bus at earlier stops.
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Post by moopigsdad on Apr 29, 2015 14:41:10 GMT -5
However, remember that 10 point vets can test at any time and there have been some that have tested and added to the Register. The numbers fluctuate all the time. Can I say there are only another 400 people with wide open GALs or useful GALs? I don't think anyone other than OPM can say that. One day, when SSA asks for more certs for let's say Harlingen, TX, OPM will say there aren't enough people available for candidate choices for that city, so we need to Refresh or allow GAL changes.
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Post by ibnlurkin on Apr 29, 2015 14:58:46 GMT -5
Dying isn't good, but losing interest is ok with me...they weren't serious about the job anyway! As some avatars have been known to say, there's less people between me and getting the job... I figure between life changes, retirements, and sadly deaths the register loses a candidate every two to three weeks. Think about the person in the January ALJ class who quit midway through the first week because they got a better offer. This has been a long strange trip and I think some people just get off the bus at earlier stops. Yes...and to be less morbid lets not forget mega millions wins, humongous bequests from long lost uncles, bidding wars on that old manuscript or even unexpected offers for really good jobs that are even better than this really good job !
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 29, 2015 15:09:37 GMT -5
However, remember that 10 point vets can test at any time and there have been some that have tested and added to the Register. The numbers fluctuate all the time. Can I say there are only another 400 people with wide open GALs or useful GALs? I don't think anyone other than OPM can say that. One day, when SSA asks for more certs for let's say Harlingen, TX, OPM will say there aren't enough people available for candidate choices for that city, so we need to Refresh or allow GAL changes. I think OPM will do it before ODAR asks. It will take them time to get GAL changes done. Based upon the totality of this process I would say at least 30 days and then they would have provide the certs. A refresh will take at least a 6 - 9 months. Even assuming they learned enough the first time around to stream line the process there is only so much time that can be shaved off the process and still adjudicate the testing for hundreds if not thousands of folks.
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Post by gary on Apr 29, 2015 15:39:56 GMT -5
Of course, MPD, if they have very limited GALs, they might not ever be up for an opening (for example, if someone only had Honolulu and D.C.), which would essentially discount them as a presence on the register, moving the effective number back downwards. At the time, I was very interested in the number of people who made it to DC for testing and the number who made the final register. In the fall of 2013 when people were testing in DC, even using the most generous assumptions, I never got over 1,100 in DC in total, and the number was likely considerably less. Subtract the 25% (or more) who were cut after DC when the final register was set, and you get very close to Loopstock's estimate of 800 (or fewer). My estimates of numbers testing in DC and winding up on the register were and are the same as yours. I came up with 825 as my best guess of the initial register size. If the cut was greater than 25%, I wouldn't be surprised at a somewhat smaller original register size.
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Post by prescient on Apr 29, 2015 20:04:00 GMT -5
No, the register doesn't expire until OPM decides it needs a new one, and puts out a notice to hire for a new register. This register took just about exactly a year to build and at its beginning had somewhere in the range of 800-900 people on it. There's still lots of names sitting on the register - all people that OPM has certified as being capable of filling an ALJ position. So it's not likely that OPM will retire or "expire" the current register at the end of this year (fiscal (Sept 30) or calendar). Perhaps one factor that could come into play (this is just a wag) is feedback OPM gets on the actual candidates who have been hired. If the feedback is positive, perhaps the register lives longer. If the feedback is negative, perhaps it lives a shorter life. I don't even know if OPM would get feedback on the general quality of the hires as a whole, so, who knows . . . I think this would be a great idea, but.. I don't think anyone collects any meaningful feedback on the judges, other than how fast they move cases. In X number of years, not I, nor anyone I've worked with, has ever been asked to provide even an informal evaluation.
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Post by luckylady2 on Apr 29, 2015 20:21:21 GMT -5
I think this would be a great idea, but.. I don't think anyone collects any meaningful feedback on the judges, other than how fast they move cases. In X number of years, not I, nor anyone I've worked with, has ever been asked to provide even an informal evaluation. Wow - that's an interesting thought.
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Post by Patience on Apr 29, 2015 20:23:48 GMT -5
What percentage of those on the register do you believe have a very small GAL, i.e. five or less cities?
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Post by BagLady on Apr 29, 2015 20:42:35 GMT -5
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Post by luckylady2 on Apr 29, 2015 23:43:45 GMT -5
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Post by Propmaster on Apr 30, 2015 11:23:47 GMT -5
Perhaps one factor that could come into play (this is just a wag) is feedback OPM gets on the actual candidates who have been hired. If the feedback is positive, perhaps the register lives longer. If the feedback is negative, perhaps it lives a shorter life. I don't even know if OPM would get feedback on the general quality of the hires as a whole, so, who knows . . . I think this would be a great idea, but.. I don't think anyone collects any meaningful feedback on the judges, other than how fast they move cases. In X number of years, not I, nor anyone I've worked with, has ever been asked to provide even an informal evaluation. ALJs cannot be evaluated, formally or informally. They are not subject to merit-based promotion or awards or raises or to penalties for poor performance. Exceptions are non-judicial functions (timekeeping or PII handling, for example), poor conduct (treason or murder, for example). Management can perform reviews of an ALJ's knowledge base or compliance with policy to assess training needs by reviewing the quality of decisions issued or the rate at which deicsions are issued. There is a bugaboo about telework only being available to ALJs who are poductive that is undergoing testing to see if it is allowable. I think any report to OPM about the quality of candidates would have to be INCREDIBLY informal and would not lead to anything being done about anything.
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Post by hapi2balj on May 14, 2015 13:00:42 GMT -5
It has now been two long years since I found out, a few days too late, that (according to OPM) my second-round invitation had in fact been sent - but that I hadn't responded in time.
I certainly appealed, and my appeal's receipt was acknowledged. Since then, not a word.
Any advice/thoughts/input? At this rate, the register should be reopened before my appeal is resolved!
Laughing through my tears, H2BALJ
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Post by hapi2balj on May 14, 2015 13:12:07 GMT -5
Just took a quick look at USA Jobs Application Manager. For my ALJ application, it says "Minimum Qualifications Not Met" and shows 6/18/2013 as the date of the most recent update.
OPM acknowledged receipt of my appeal 8/23/2013.
Ugh.
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