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Post by ok1956 on Jan 17, 2015 13:23:02 GMT -5
I hate to add more confusion to the mix, but for those of us with small gals there may not be anything that will capture all. Using me as an example - I received and early email with my one city on it, with the "be ready to report" in January. As everyone who has seen my posts know, I wasn't interviewed in December but I am being interviewed in January. If hired, I would imagine I wouldn't report until March at the earliest. So where would my "vote" go? :-) could be I'm the only anomaly, maybe the others who were in my "boat" received supplemental certs, but I don't know.
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Post by Missundaztood on Jan 17, 2015 13:34:19 GMT -5
I hate to add more confusion to the mix, but for those of us with small gals there may not be anything that will capture all. Using me as an example - I received and early email with my one city on it, with the "be ready to report" in January. As everyone who has seen my posts know, I wasn't interviewed in December but I am being interviewed in January. If hired, I would imagine I wouldn't report until March at the earliest. So where would my "vote" go? :-) could be I'm the only anomaly, maybe the others who were in my "boat" received supplemental certs, but I don't know. OK, I was thinking that in the "legend," it would include the list of complete cities. So your city would be included in the group that was emailed out way back when, even though you didn't interview until recently. I know it is ignoring the reality that you were told that you wouldn't be considered for the December hiring, but if you get an offer, it is off the original cert email, no?
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Post by Missundaztood on Jan 17, 2015 13:36:53 GMT -5
Oh, and I agree, it is confusing. I had Milwaukee before, and have it again. So then, how is it a "supplement"?
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Post by moopigsdad on Jan 17, 2015 15:33:20 GMT -5
If I get hired the date of the cert on which they hired me is not going to matter to me. On the other hand: 1) at this time I am interested in the cities for which they are interviewing and hiring for a hiring class to have an idea of whether I might be in the running for that class; and 2) I have an academic interest in knowing how the process is actually working. However, I think we need to work from what is knowable to us. It would be nice if Bob would tell somebody what cities are in play for say the March hiring class, but I don't think we can count on that. I think the best we can do on a fairly regular basis is to go with the dates of the earliest emails we hear of. I can tell you you needed a NOR of 70.14 or higher to be on the Charlottesville, VA cert....LOL! Other than that I cannot tell you anything with certainty.
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Post by Gaidin on Jan 17, 2015 22:05:37 GMT -5
Ok. Don't think of the cert and the hiring class as connected. Under the methodology ODAR is using now: You may be on a cert Crapland West on January 20. They interview most people but not you on that cert in February. They hire a group with a March start date that you are not on. Then you get interviewed in March. Then you get hired in April for a May start date.
You would be on the 1/20/15 cert. You would be hired for the May class.
I think we use the date that the bulk of the emails asking people to rank cities goes out.
KISS.
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Post by funkyodar on Jan 18, 2015 11:35:06 GMT -5
I don't think odar is looking at the process by "first, second and so on" or by date anymore. And I think us trying to do so is akin to trying to put the infamous square peg into the old familiar round hole.
Why not just call the certs by their city name? IE, "I made the Charleston cert?" Or, "they must be supplementing because I'm now on the Charleston cert." Or "I am worried I am three struck because, based on the score poll, I should have been added to the Charleston cert." Or, "I think the Charleston cert is finaly dead based on the fact they hired four there last class, it has been reported they are full and weirdo just posted he got his transfer there."
I think that works best to encapsulate what this new process is and how odar now looks at it.
Missing something?
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Post by gary on Jan 18, 2015 11:43:28 GMT -5
I don't think odar is looking at the process by "first, second and so on" or by date anymore. And I think us trying to do so is akin to trying to put the infamous square peg into the old familiar round hole. Why not just call the certs by their city name? IE, "I made the Charleston cert?" Or, "they must be supplementing because I'm now on the Charleston cert." Or "I am worried I am three struck because, based on the score poll, I should have been added to the Charleston cert." Or, "I think the Charleston cert is finaly dead based on the fact they hired four there last class, it has been reported they are full and weirdo just posted he got his transfer there." I think that works best to encapsulate what this new process is and how odar now looks at it. Missing something? That works for me. It has the merit of fitting pretty well what they are actually doing. The only nuance I can think of is there might be a Middlesboro cert in late Spring of 2014. They might completely fill it then, send OPM their report on it, and get a new Middlesboro cert in Fall 2014. And it would be darned hard for us to know that happened. I personally don't feel a strong desire to know whether a particular cert is the first, second, or twelfth for a location, just whether a location is in play for an upcomoing hire and whether I'm in play for that location for that hire.
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Post by funkyodar on Jan 18, 2015 12:44:20 GMT -5
Gary,
In your Middlesboro example, I still think just calling it the "Middlesboro Cert" works.
Let's say you made the cert in spring 14 for MB. You interviewed but were not hired there or for any other city for which you had certed.
They fill all slots. The MB cert expires. The only way one would know it expired is if transfers start occurring there, but that doesnt happen with MB. Subsequently there is another MB opening or two and they get a second MB cert.
Odar doesn't necessarily have to tell you that you made that cert. You made it last time, said you would go there, ranked it and interviewed already. So, as far as odar is concerned and for simplicity sake, they can treat it like a supplemental cert and just notify those new to the MB cert. I think this is exactly what they are doing.
The only way you wouldn't make the new MB cert is if you are three struck and MB alone wont tell you that. If you see other cities certed that based on your gal and score you should have made but didnt...three striking is a real possibility and maybe you arent on the new MB either. But no one is gonna tell you that and absent that evidence I think you are safe to assume you are in contention for MB.
In short I think just saying "I have made the MB, Tupelo, Charleston...certs" is good and it doesnt matter whether you made it in spring, summer or whatever. Once you have been told you are in contention for a city, I think you are in contention for that city until you are hired somewhere, until that city's cert is dead or until you have evidence sufficient to conclude you have been struck.
Of course, it is not beyond the realm of possible that I am completely wrong.
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Post by gary on Jan 18, 2015 12:52:53 GMT -5
I agree funky.
I think we have to accept that there is a lot going on with this process that we can't know.
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Post by anotherfed on Jan 18, 2015 13:05:20 GMT -5
Agreed. But posters should still report the cities they receive on an email (whether "supplemental" or otherwise) so we can track which cities are in play at a particular point in time.
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Post by mamaru on Jan 18, 2015 15:13:43 GMT -5
Funky makes sense, except why did some of us get notified for a city or cities that were on our previous emails and already ranked, not just any additional ones? It's a mystery.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jan 18, 2015 16:46:01 GMT -5
Funky makes sense, except why did some of us get notified for a city or cities that were on our previous emails and already ranked, not just any additional ones? It's a mystery. Mamaru I believe there was a cert for an opening of one position that either was filled by a hire or transfer or not filled. Hence, a new cert for the same city was pulled because another brand new opening occurred in that city requiring the need for a new cert for that new position. (i.e. Milwaukee)
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Post by cheesy on Jan 18, 2015 21:31:55 GMT -5
Where's BagLady and Orchid for all this? There's two things this Board can sort out, and sort out well, and it's our ETOH and our geocoords.
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Post by BagLady on Jan 19, 2015 15:11:53 GMT -5
Where's BagLady and Orchid for all this? There's two things this Board can sort out, and sort out well, and it's our ETOH and our geocoords. Trying to figure out how to name the certs is driving me to drink.
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Post by gary on Jan 19, 2015 15:19:10 GMT -5
Where's BagLady and Orchid for all this? There's two things this Board can sort out, and sort out well, and it's our ETOH and our geocoords. Trying to figure out how to name the certs is driving me to drink. Then some good has come from this thread.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jan 19, 2015 15:54:15 GMT -5
I think we may be coming full circle on this naming thing. With all due respect to my esteemed colleague and friend Gaidin, I think that the classes and certs are married and cannot be separated. Fact: ODAR hires by class. A class is a reporting date, since they have to gather a critical mass of new judges to justify training. So, that is a constant we can rely upon, and which we learn early, by someone reporting they got an offer with instruction to report on 3/23/15 (which I'll use as the "hiring class" example below). After hiring is completed for a class, there is always a lull while certs are requested/obtained, the transfer lists are worked, and ODAR gears up for the next hiring process: email--ranking--interviews--bkgrd checks--references--offers. The first large email after a full class is hired, advising of a new set of city certs, should be called "The Cert (for the 3/23/15 class)" Subsequently, there will be any number of seemingly random and inconsistent actions by ODAR, from calls to a person asking if they are still interested in a city, to random emails advising someone they are on a city's cert, to emails sent to small groups of new folks advising them of being certed for a select few new cities. Each of these is a "Supplemental Cert" in that it advises someone of a new, heretofore not-revealed city cert that that person or people are now on. These can be referred to as "the supp cert of Sandi for Honolulu" if I'm the only one who was contacted; "the supp cert of 1/21/15" (referring to a cert for, say, 7 cities, confirmed for multiple candidates not previously certed for this class), etc. Thus, I think "the class of (reporting date)", "the Cert", and a series of "supplemental certs of (date)" will serve us best to prevent confusion in the discussion. It is true that the certs may carry over from one hiring class to subsequent classes. That is the exception, however, and shouldn't prove confusing ("I was on the 1/20/15 supplemental cert for three cities and hired for the 7/20/15 class.") My understanding is that we can suppose but not really know when a cert is "closed" by ODAR, or what that really means, if anything. Just MHO, as this discussion is making my head swim.
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Post by Missundaztood on Jan 19, 2015 17:57:28 GMT -5
I think this is one of those stinkin' logic-based questions!!!
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Post by hondo35 on Jan 20, 2015 10:18:30 GMT -5
Glad you guys are sorting this out; it is too complex for my pixie like brain to absorb. When fully sorted, let me know and we will adopt it. Pixie. But...but...Pixies are magic. Ok1956-- same boat as you, if you recall. November email for a small GAL, no December interview, going in this week. We are just trouble children throwing monkey wrenches in Gaidin's well thought out plans. Can we do it by interview dates? The "December Interviewees" versus we "January Interviewees" versus whatever the next set is?
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Post by ok1956 on Jan 20, 2015 11:32:05 GMT -5
Glad you guys are sorting this out; it is too complex for my pixie like brain to absorb. When fully sorted, let me know and we will adopt it. Pixie. But...but...Pixies are magic. Ok1956-- same boat as you, if you recall. November email for a small GAL, no December interview, going in this week. We are just trouble children throwing monkey wrenches in Gaidin's well thought out plans. Can we do it by interview dates? The "December Interviewees" versus we "January Interviewees" versus whatever the next set is? I started to include you in my post but didn't in case you didn't want to be considered a problem child like me haha
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Post by gary on Jan 20, 2015 11:42:53 GMT -5
But...but...Pixies are magic. Ok1956-- same boat as you, if you recall. November email for a small GAL, no December interview, going in this week. We are just trouble children throwing monkey wrenches in Gaidin's well thought out plans. Can we do it by interview dates? The "December Interviewees" versus we "January Interviewees" versus whatever the next set is? I started to include you in my post but didn't in case you didn't want to be considered a problem child like me haha Get it together, people! For Gaidin's sake!
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