ebb
New Member
Posts: 5
|
Post by ebb on Apr 13, 2015 19:18:49 GMT -5
So I just got on the cert, which is a surprise, as I had a tiny GAL, and am trying to decide if I want to go through with this process. I have a great, substantive job, and while I suspect that I would very much enjoy being an ALJ at, say, the NLRB, I'm much less sure that I would want to stay at SS for the long term. So I'm worried about gambling on leaving my current job for a possibility at an even harder to get ALJ job down the road. This is kind of a ridiculous and entitled question, but does anyone have any thoughts?
|
|
|
Post by saaao on Apr 13, 2015 19:40:24 GMT -5
If you know you don't want to be an SSA Judge and you are happy with your job, I would think the smarter move would be to stand pat. On the other hand all the agencies are experiencing retirement drains, so there would probably never be a better time than now to attempt that kind of jump. It probably depends on how specific your desires are. If you just want to go to an agency that conducts adversarial court style proceedings, I imagine you could get a transfer eventually, depending on your experience. However If you only have one agency in mind, I would think that your odds will be pretty long.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 7:11:43 GMT -5
So I just got on the cert, which is a surprise, as I had a tiny GAL, and am trying to decide if I want to go through with this process. Really? After almost two years in you are at this last stage unsure of your decision? Every year there are 1 or 2 candidates who after hire, and during training, decide this is not for them and quit. Not only have does indecision cost the US a very large amount of money but it disrupts an entire system and is not well received. (Immediately after hire, things happen: offices/equipment computers must be allocated, staff assigned, cases start to be scheduled, VEs, ME, interpreters scheduled, training set up, hotel, travel and other expenses, other agencies set up for incoming TSP, health, insurance, etc. All just for the single new hire. The expense, costs and personnel time involved are not small.) Your singular job, day in and day out, as an ALJ is to make timely decisions; yay or nay. Simple as that over and over and over, ad infinitum. Thumb up/thumb down. With all due respect, but speaking bluntly, if after two years, you have not yet made this one decision, then stark reality is that you may not be cut out for this job. Perhaps it is best to get out of the way and let another willing candidate behind you step in. Let Bob know asap so he can start processing another candidate.
|
|
|
Post by grassgreener on Apr 14, 2015 8:45:29 GMT -5
So I just got on the cert, which is a surprise, as I had a tiny GAL, and am trying to decide if I want to go through with this process. I have a great, substantive job, and while I suspect that I would very much enjoy being an ALJ at, say, the NLRB, I'm much less sure that I would want to stay at SS for the long term. So I'm worried about gambling on leaving my current job for a possibility at an even harder to get ALJ job down the road. This is kind of a ridiculous and entitled question, but does anyone have any thoughts? I think it's easy to get caught up in the desire to be chosen for this job, but it really isn't a job for everyone. There is a constancy in this position that is systems and process driven albeit ostensibly for the claimant's benefit - it is important work - the pros and cons of which have been discussed on this board. That internal glee that you have when first called a judge or your honor wears off quickly in light of the high volume workload you're responsible for. Some people who know that they wanted to be part of the NLRB or another agency were fortunate to be hired less than a year after they started with SSA, while others waited years. Others that I know jumped on board with SSA with some misgivings only to leave after a year or two. At the same time, there are other ALJs who really like the job and will be lifers. While you may ultimately like to get an even harder to get ALJ job down the road, there are other current ALJs who are also hoping to get the even harder to get ALJ job. But, unless you're an ALJ, you won't ever get that chance.
|
|
|
Post by JudgeRatty on Apr 14, 2015 8:48:32 GMT -5
So I just got on the cert, which is a surprise, as I had a tiny GAL, and am trying to decide if I want to go through with this process. Really? After almost two years in you are at this last stage unsure of your decision? Every year there are 1 or 2 candidates who after hire, and during training, decide this is not for them and quit. Not only have does indecision cost the US a very large amount of money but it disrupts an entire system and is not well received. (Immediately after hire, things happen: offices/equipment computers must be allocated, staff assigned, cases start to be scheduled, VEs, ME, interpreters scheduled, training set up, hotel, travel and other expenses, other agencies set up for incoming TSP, health, insurance, etc. All just for the single new hire. The expense, costs and personnel time involved are not small.) Your singular job, day in and day out, as an ALJ is to make timely decisions; yay or nay. Simple as that over and over and over, ad infinitum. Thumb up/thumb down. With all due respect, but speaking bluntly, if after two years, you have not yet made this one decision, then stark reality is that you may not be cut out for this job. Perhaps it is best to get out of the way and let another willing candidate behind you step in. Let Bob know asap so he can start processing another candidate. Not to beat up on the original poster, but I (and oh so many others) WANT this job. We have researched it, planned for the process, knew exactly what the job is like, etc. and still WANT it. So when I see people who are so lucky to get this far and yet still do not know? Sigh. And if someone like this actually gets an offer and THEN decides it is not for them, it really makes me wonder. Sorry ebb. Don't mean to jump on you, but it is painful enough of a process and when we see folks get through this far and are not certain....
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 8:59:27 GMT -5
It is kind of like when as a kid you have waited every summer for years until that summer when you are allowed to climb up and jump off the 10' diving board. You and 37 other kids who have also been waiting summer after summer are gathered round the ladder looking up and waiting on the kid up there to jump. And he doesn't. A collective groan of exasperation erupts from your group as you all must now wait again for the lifeguard to come over, climb up, and bring the hesitant kid back down the ladder before you can climb up and make your jump. Don't climb the ladder if you are not going to jump.
|
|
|
Post by saaao on Apr 14, 2015 9:01:59 GMT -5
Really? After almost two years in you are at this last stage unsure of your decision? Every year there are 1 or 2 candidates who after hire, and during training, decide this is not for them and quit. Not only have does indecision cost the US a very large amount of money but it disrupts an entire system and is not well received. (Immediately after hire, things happen: offices/equipment computers must be allocated, staff assigned, cases start to be scheduled, VEs, ME, interpreters scheduled, training set up, hotel, travel and other expenses, other agencies set up for incoming TSP, health, insurance, etc. All just for the single new hire. The expense, costs and personnel time involved are not small.) Your singular job, day in and day out, as an ALJ is to make timely decisions; yay or nay. Simple as that over and over and over, ad infinitum. Thumb up/thumb down. With all due respect, but speaking bluntly, if after two years, you have not yet made this one decision, then stark reality is that you may not be cut out for this job. Perhaps it is best to get out of the way and let another willing candidate behind you step in. Let Bob know asap so he can start processing another candidate. Not to beat up on the original poster, but I (and oh so many others) WANT this job. We have researched it, planned for the process, knew exactly what the job is like, etc. and still WANT it. So when I see people who are so lucky to get this far and yet still do not know? Sigh. And if someone like this actually gets an offer and THEN decides it is not for them, it really makes me wonder. Sorry ebb. Don't mean to jump on you, but it is painful enough of a process and when we see folks get through this far and are not certain.... A quote from The Godfather Part Two occurs to me. To heavily paraphrase "When I was passed over for someone who didn't even want the job I didn't ask why! I just said to myself this is the business we have chosen."
|
|
|
Post by Missundaztood on Apr 14, 2015 9:03:32 GMT -5
In ebb's defense, better to ask the question before turning in the GAL, than to wait for the offer from Bob to think about it. This is the time to seriously consider GAL locations too. If Bob were to call with an offer to each location, will you say yes? If not, decline it. I know, it is hard to do. But it is a decision each person has to make, and I suggest the hard work be done now, not later.
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Apr 14, 2015 9:21:46 GMT -5
I couldn't say it better than @nqcebxxte and JudgeRatty so I won't try. But to echo Missundaztood on a similar point. Folks now is the time to make some hard choices. Sit down with your decision making group and decide "Will we say yes if we get a call about this city?" I believe that offers for the May 18 start date will begin sometime between Thursday and Monday. If you take 24 hours that is at least one person whose ALJ dream won't happen for weeks because of you. Think about how much angst you're going through wondering whether Bob will call you. Now imagine that you had to wait weeks more to get that call because somebody else hadn't talked to their wife about Akron? If you don't know how good the schools are in Creve Couer find out today before you send in your paperwork. Please folks its a marathon not a sprint but don't move the starting line on each other.
|
|
|
Post by mamaru on Apr 14, 2015 9:56:56 GMT -5
I don't think the questions raised are bad ones. The Board has a lot of information about the job, positive and negative, and after watching for awhile someone could reach the conclusion that the position isn't all he/she thought it was cracked up to be when the initial "send" was hit to submit the application.
In my view taking in and processing new information is a good thing in making a career decision. I think if you are considering accepting the job as a SSA ALJ as a means to an end, it makes sense to seek the wisdom of the board about how that might work. I am hesitant to label that "indecisive." I would agree that if you are someone that chronically has a hard time making decisions, or has that lawyer-like trait of wanting that decisive case or smoking gun piece of evidence and just can't stop looking for it, this job may not be the right fit.
On the other hand, being cautious about a career decision of this magnitude, especially if you are in a job you like with comparable pay and benefits, seems to me to be a good thing. And it's especially true if accepting the position entails moving a family or facing a period of a parent living apart for an indefinite period of time.
But I also agree that the time to make the call is now, not after Bob calls or - worse - till you accept the job. As has been pointed out, there are a lot of us who really want these positions. Although I can't find it in me to criticize someone who reconsiders and drops out of the race before turning in those GALs, I hope those tough decisions are made in time to give the rest of us a shot.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 14, 2015 10:19:55 GMT -5
Ebb, I share your concerns, as I'm in a similar situation. And I've never been accused of being indecisive. There is some obvious frustration and self-interest in some of the responses. You would probably increase your chances of going to an agency like the NLRB if you are already an ALJ, but whether it is worth the price of working at SSA is completely a personal decision.
|
|
|
Post by hopefalj on Apr 14, 2015 11:02:23 GMT -5
I'm sure there are some examples otherwise, but my understanding is that if you wish to become an ALJ in another agency, you'd better have significant experience practicing before or with that agency.
People complain about SSA hiring insiders, but the other agencies do so at a much greater rate when selecting from sitting ALJs in SSA's corps.
|
|
|
Post by chinook on Apr 14, 2015 11:31:54 GMT -5
I am not sure hopefalj's understanding is totally accurate. Moving from SSA to another agency doesn't necessarily require agency expertise but requires litigation experience. I know many judges who transferred from SSA to an agency with no agency expertise, including the agency where I was an ALJ.
To address Ebb's question. Transfers are possible but it depends on where you are willing to work. If you are willing to work in Washington DC, your chanches are higher, if not, it will be much more difficult. If you get an ALJ position at SSA, join FALJC, go to their annual meeting so you meet judges at other agencies.
I was in a similar position as you. After being on the board for a while, I decided that SSA was probably not the best fit for me. However, I stayed on the register and interviewed with SSA, did not get an offer. I had a GAL that was only Washington and the commuting area. I took the exam a second time and significantly increased my score. I wound up on 3 certs at the same time and took the first (non-SSA) offer.
With that as background, my suggestion is take the position if offered, because it is easier to move to another agency as an ALJ. In addition, you might get an offer from another agency. Best of Luck
|
|
|
Post by sealaw90 on Apr 14, 2015 12:22:57 GMT -5
Chinook, thanks for sharing your story, it is really good to hear the long term perspective of someone who has run the marathon. Although I would take a SSA ALJ position, there are other agencies on my radar so this is helpful.
|
|
|
Post by luckylady2 on Apr 15, 2015 9:57:13 GMT -5
I'll chime in and say - while I agree that there's some attractiveness to the possibility that you could EVENTUALLY end up doing more adversarial hearings at another agency, I think it's very important to focus on the JOB AT HAND and the daily work that your are committing to do for the foreseeable future.
If you don't want to be a gatekeeper for the SSA's benefits, helping to determine which applicants meet the standard and which don't, day after day after day; if you don't want to be part of a huge effort to whittle down a significant backlog by wading your way through the list of the sick and injured one at a time; if you don't want to count working for SSA as a significant career move (as opposed to a quick stepping stone on the path to Somewhere Else), then you might be better standing pat with a job you really like and obviously enjoy substantively.
|
|
|
Post by bartleby on Apr 15, 2015 10:57:36 GMT -5
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but, none of you know what the job is. Especially the insiders. They have a remote idea, but until you do this for a couple of years and realize the strain and pressure will you know the job. When I was a writer and when I was a senior attorney, come quitting time, I was done. No more ODAR until teh next morning or Monday. When I became a Judge, I suddenly realized this is a 24/7 job. You are contantly thinking about cases, researching some nuance, Editing some writer that did not have a clue, trying to move all of your cases contantly so none sit in any status for too long. Some pressure is from the Agency, but the rest is self-inflicted. We are professionals or we wouldn't be here. We attempt to succeed in everything we touch. Some may find the work easy, but I promise you if you do, you don't know what you are doing. We are the ones that sit in the hearing room with the 55 year old woman that recently lost her husband and is in constant pain without medical insurance (so we have no medical evidence of record) that is crying and you know that you are her only hope for the future and yet by being constrained by the Dicta of the Agency, you must deny her. Which way you gonna go? The rubber meets the road and the screeching sound is often reality entering a Bizarro World of ODAR. I hope you all get the chance to decide for yourself if it is to be or not. Just don't give up your soul. Peace and the Kitties say Hi!!
|
|
|
Post by Gaidin on Apr 15, 2015 10:58:43 GMT -5
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but, none of you know what the job is. Especially the insiders. They have a remote idea, but until you do this for a couple of years and realize the strain and pressure will you know the job. When I was a writer and when I was a senior attorney, come quitting time, I was done. No more ODAR until teh next morning or Monday. When I became a Judge, I suddenly realized this is a 24/7 job. You are contantly thinking about cases, researching some nuance, Editing some writer that did not have a clue, trying to move all of your cases contantly so none sit in any status for too long. Some pressure is from the Agency, but the rest is self-indiced. We are professionals or we wouldn't be here. We attempt to succeed in everything we touch. Some may find the work easy, but I promise you if you do, you don't know what you are doing. We are teh ones that sit in teh hearing room with the 55 year old women that recently lost her husband and is in constant pain without medical insurance (so we have no medical evidence of record) that is crying and you know that you are her only hope for the future and yet by being constrained by the Dicta of the Agency, you must deny her. Which way you gonna go? The rubber meets teh road and the screeching sound is often reality entering a Bizarro World of ODAR. I hope you all get the chance to decide for yourself if it is to be or not. Just don't give up your soul. Peace and the Kitties say Hi!! And a wild bartleby emerges from the bush. I was wondering where you were during this hullabaloo.
|
|
|
Post by 71stretch on Apr 15, 2015 13:36:52 GMT -5
Not trying to rain on anyone's parade, but, none of you know what the job is. Especially the insiders. They have a remote idea, but until you do this for a couple of years and realize the strain and pressure will you know the job. When I was a writer and when I was a senior attorney, come quitting time, I was done. No more ODAR until teh next morning or Monday. When I became a Judge, I suddenly realized this is a 24/7 job. You are contantly thinking about cases, researching some nuance, Editing some writer that did not have a clue, trying to move all of your cases contantly so none sit in any status for too long. Some pressure is from the Agency, but the rest is self-indiced. We are professionals or we wouldn't be here. We attempt to succeed in everything we touch. Some may find the work easy, but I promise you if you do, you don't know what you are doing. We are teh ones that sit in teh hearing room with the 55 year old women that recently lost her husband and is in constant pain without medical insurance (so we have no medical evidence of record) that is crying and you know that you are her only hope for the future and yet by being constrained by the Dicta of the Agency, you must deny her. Which way you gonna go? The rubber meets teh road and the screeching sound is often reality entering a Bizarro World of ODAR. I hope you all get the chance to decide for yourself if it is to be or not. Just don't give up your soul. Peace and the Kitties say Hi!! I've been in hearings like that myself, and could do nothing for people who might well be deserving but offered none of the evidence the law requires. And, yes, you do think about your cases when you are not at work. (some may say they don't, but many judges do). Jobs like this are not for everyone. Moving across the country for a job that ultimately is not right for you is not a pleasant prospect. Ponder well, as Bart advises.
|
|
|
Post by tinman on Apr 15, 2015 14:21:26 GMT -5
Yes, ponder well, and good luck. I don't agree with the judging. It's entirely rational to get yourself on a closed list not knowing whether you'll be ready when the time comes, possibly years down the road. Apparently Ebb's time has come. Why should she be faulted for deferring on a decision until it had to be made? Sure, everyone wants to be called judge while being allowed to telecommute and draw a 168k salary. Who doesn't. Adjudicating ss benefits 500 times a year for the rest of your career? Not so sexy. Not an easy call for those of us with great jobs but who want a modest bump up in salary and quality of life for our families and also think we could do a decent job.
|
|
|
Post by 71stretch on Apr 15, 2015 14:30:49 GMT -5
I don't quarrel at all with going through the process to get on the register knowing that SSA is not the preferred destination. It's the only way to be hired from the register by any other agency that chooses to do that. The fact is, though, that the sheer numbers that SSA hires means that most of the jobs filled from the register are with that agency. If ebb's NOR is not really high, the odds of a direct hire by someone other than SSA (or OMHA this time around, they reached lower scorers than previously) are very small. So, through SSA is the only other way to get there. If that offends some of you who really want the SSA hire, oh, well.
|
|