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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 9:39:57 GMT -5
mpg, daycare bills are insane. you;d be shocked if you saw how high they got. marten's "joke" about rivaling a mortgage point was sadly, only a half joke comment.
from mpg earlier:Marten I must state if you cannot afford your daycare bill on an ALJs salary you should look for another line of work. I am not trying to be flippant or cruel, but I am stating the obvious. If you can survive now with daycare, why can't you on an ALJs salary? Once again, if not enough money for you, then seriously consider another occupation that pays more. Take the position seriously and be prepared to devote your working hours toward doing it correctly. Sorry my answer seems harsh, it isn't meant to be, but it is the reality of the position as an ALJ.
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Post by Gaidin on Aug 22, 2015 10:24:07 GMT -5
I think some of you took the idea of daycare costs and completely misunderstood what Marten was talking about. We are mostly past those costs now. However, for years Number 1 Son was old enough to hang out at his end of the house and not bother us if we worked at home. However, he was not old enough to be home alone. Even being able to eliminate a weeks worth of cost over the course of a month would have been a huge savings. So back up a bit on assuming the guy was going to be watching his toddler instead of working. However, I think Prop's comments about scrutiny are worth reviewing. Whether it's child care, elder care, or just you passion for a hobby not only should it not interfere with your work you don't want management to question whether it does or not.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 10:38:07 GMT -5
exactly or as marten pointed out, if they are done working at 3, they can pick kiddos right up after school if at telework rather than an after care program between school and the time it takes to get from their office to the school.
As an insider(although not a judge), i have found SSA to have very friendly family friendly policies and a wonderful agency to work for while juggling being an attorney and a parent. i would say many judges that i know who juggled being a judge and a parent would agree with my comment. just wanted to pass that info along.
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Post by funkyodar on Aug 22, 2015 10:55:06 GMT -5
There are some additional practicalities of Tele work to consider as well.
When I last worked from home, as a writer, VPN wasn't up and running yet. Neither was the Web time and attendance program. You essentially loaded all your work on a laptop, turned in a sheet listing the cases you were taking home and went home for two or three days. When you came back, you turned in time sheets showing you worked the core hours each day and uploaded the decision drafts from your laptop. How management knew you were doing the job was seeing your production in cases written equaled time spent at home. I'm certainly not saying I ever did it, but some have told me in the past how they would do all their work on one day and essentially take the others off. I've heard of writers that would actually write on weekends or at night. Even heard of some taking their laptop on vacation and claiming to be working from home instead of taking leave. All are violations of the rules, but was largely unproveable as long as one turned in the required work when they came back to the office. Not saying it was widespread, but the stories are out there.
VPN changes all that. Now, management can tell when your computer is on or off, how long you have been away from it and what work you are doing in real time. And you sign in and out online each day. Much better system and makes catching violators easy.
But there a a couple downsides to consider. First, the agency doesn't pay your incurred Internet costs. VPN takes a ton. If you have unlimited or cheap Internet access great, if it costs by the use it can be quite expensive. Second, VPN doesn't work with all Internet sources. Out at the funkyfarm, we have no access to dsl or cable. My satellite Internet doesn't work with VPN. And cell provided Internet use for the up and downloads required would mean a second mortgage for me. So no work from home for funky.
Finally, remember that the agreement specifies you have to be within 2 hours of the office. So don't think you can use work from home to ease the stress of being assigned to an office across the country from your home.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 12:24:36 GMT -5
vpn is great! funk, figure out some way to get increased internet power. is satellite an option or could that compromise integrity? i've done telework under paper files, a laptop but paper files, eview, and now vpn. despite the disadvantages funky accurately noted, VPN is by far the easiest way to telework. so don't be dismayed by the downsides. i use a ethernet cable because my system can crash with VPN and wifi but once my miracle worker HOSA figured that out, it's been great. plus if you have an issue, the office computer person, so long as your computer is at least up and running and connected through vpn, can remotely fix many computer issues. so be kind to your HOSA(computer person) is my best rec and hope you have an office with a good hosa.
actually paper files, other than dragging the darn things around, were not bad either but those days are LONG gone for the most part.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 13:04:35 GMT -5
beancounter, it depends on office. i had one manager who was a bit of a .... about it but my current hod is very supportive of it. and there are other offices who are way better than mine on it. mine can get a little ocd on some minor telework issues despite being more or less cool with telework.
Agency, on paper, fully supports it and in my opinion, it is far more accepted now than say 10 years ago. i actually see agency moving more in favor of it in next 10 years, at least on paper, Support staff gets grief with it but ALJ's generally don't from what i have seen and talked to ALJS' about so long as they get their work done. the connection issue is a bugger though as a person needs a high speed connection for vpn to work properly.
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Post by mamaru on Aug 22, 2015 14:57:45 GMT -5
I think that webTA and VPN ultimately will make management more comfortable with telework because of the ability to monitor. Those Funky described who were vocal about flaunting the rules did not do us any favors. I find that the main advantage of telework is being able to avoid the commute, which saves me an hour a day on the road and a couple of gallons of gas each week.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Aug 22, 2015 16:59:42 GMT -5
Thanks for the info Funky. I have to say, it seems like the agency discourages telework, whether that is the intent or not. Kinda turns me off to the job. The agency does not discourage telework. It is a privilege though, and you have to pay your own internet. Plain and simple. If you want to save gas and time to get to work, do it and get an internet provider that will work. It really isn't any more simple than that.
But telework means WORK (this is not directed at you @beancounter or anyone else in particular... just me getting on my soapbox for a minute). It means working exactly the same as you do in the office. No errands unless you are on a break, and if you need to take off to go do something, put in leave just like you would in the office. Follow the rules. It is vital that everyone treat telework with the same respect as you treat the time in your office. Abuse it and you put the entire program at risk for all of us. Don't be the one to be running to the grocery store while you are supposed to be working only to get into an accident and then have to explain your absence. Accomplish the same productivity at home as you do at the office. Very simple. But you would be (well maybe not) surprised that there are those who abuse it. This only harms all of us. Just remember, it is a privilege.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Aug 22, 2015 17:02:13 GMT -5
I think that webTA and VPN ultimately will make management more comfortable with telework because of the ability to monitor. Those Funky described who were vocal about flaunting the rules did not do us any favors. I find that the main advantage of telework is being able to avoid the commute, which saves me an hour a day on the road and a couple of gallons of gas each week. Exactly. Saves gas & commute time, and I do not eat out as much when teleworking. Can't wait to get back to it once my year as an ALJ is up! I loved teleworking as a senior attorney. I could pet my dogs and sit at my desk at home without the added expense of travel to the office. A small raise so to speak.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 17:51:44 GMT -5
beancounter, that is an agency downside. some folks can tend to micromanage, not all but some do. so def be on notice for that. my understanding is the degree of micromanaging varies by office and region. i should also mention that the newer union contracts, in my opinion, allow for considerably more micromanaging.
if you would like to pm me to learn more on any of these issues, feel free.
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Post by luckylady2 on Aug 22, 2015 19:23:04 GMT -5
A viewpoint from working for a completely different federal agency many, many years ago, that at first allowed telework via VPN only for the after-hours hours. It was wonderful - no more eating dinner out of vending machines, calling my neighbors to let the dog out, leaving work when the neighborhood was sketchy.
My boss there was always skeptical of telework - because he thought the average taxpayer from Anywhere, America, would not believe that a person teleworking was working or working as hard from home. He saw it as a matter of accountability and a manager's ability to demonstrate that his or her employees are, in fact, working when they say they are. At the office, it just takes a stroll around the floor(s). If there's any question from Congress, an agency audit, or whatever, the agency has to have some sort of records to substantiate the hours worked.
Now times have changed and telework IS accepted as legitimate work. But I think that a slightly higher level of scrutiny for those who are out there on their own is the price you pay for being out there on your own, and is appropriate.
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Post by westernalj on Aug 22, 2015 21:14:58 GMT -5
One additional benefit, you can flex just like you can if you're in the office. But it's often more useful when you're at home. And by flex I mean you can take time out of the day to go to an appointment, to lunch, just take a break, whatever. As long as you account for it and add time to the end of your day to make up for it.
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Post by christina on Aug 22, 2015 21:24:31 GMT -5
yes and i am not sure about judges but as a non-judge, i need to make my sup aware that i am doing so ahead of time.
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Post by mamaru on Aug 23, 2015 0:21:18 GMT -5
A viewpoint from working for a completely different federal agency many, many years ago, that at first allowed telework via VPN only for the after-hours hours. It was wonderful - no more eating dinner out of vending machines, calling my neighbors to let the dog out, leaving work when the neighborhood was sketchy. My boss there was always skeptical of telework - because he thought the average taxpayer from Anywhere, America, would not believe that a person teleworking was working or working as hard from home. He saw it as a matter of accountability and a manager's ability to demonstrate that his or her employees are, in fact, working when they say they are. At the office, it just takes a stroll around the floor(s). If there's any question from Congress, an agency audit, or whatever, the agency has to have some sort of records to substantiate the hours worked. Now times have changed and telework IS accepted as legitimate work. But I think that a slightly higher level of scrutiny for those who are out there on their own is the price you pay for being out there on your own, and is appropriate. At SSA a supervisor does not even have to stroll the office to see if employees are working (or at least generating keystrokes on the computer) - we can be monitored via Lync wherever we are working. And for those of you outside the Agency, mouse jigglers are officially forbidden so don't get any ideas. We all have different working styles, but I tend to be more productive at home than at the office.
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Post by jonsprag1 on Aug 23, 2015 7:11:46 GMT -5
Telework is nice, but at times it leads to too many distractions. It is better to be in the office and have less distractions many times. Whether at home or at the office you still have to get the work done. So, it is a nice perk, but it isn't the be all and end all. My last job allowed me to telework 2 days a week and I had far fewer distractions than in the office (it was a cube farm) and got twice as much done when I worked at home--I'm eagerly awaiting the end of my first year so I can avoid a one hour drive to the office 2 days a week and get a 2/5 break on the Kentucky state income tax--the hearing schedule in the Middlesboro office is for each judge to have two days a week for hearings--if I worked in an office with one week of hearings alternating with one week of prep/editing it would be more difficult Regarding the micromanagement issue, I suspect if you are processing 500 cases a year, nobody is going to be looking too hard to count how many times you go to the bathroom or kitchen
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Post by prescient on Aug 23, 2015 7:48:37 GMT -5
A viewpoint from working for a completely different federal agency many, many years ago, that at first allowed telework via VPN only for the after-hours hours. It was wonderful - no more eating dinner out of vending machines, calling my neighbors to let the dog out, leaving work when the neighborhood was sketchy. My boss there was always skeptical of telework - because he thought the average taxpayer from Anywhere, America, would not believe that a person teleworking was working or working as hard from home. He saw it as a matter of accountability and a manager's ability to demonstrate that his or her employees are, in fact, working when they say they are. At the office, it just takes a stroll around the floor(s). If there's any question from Congress, an agency audit, or whatever, the agency has to have some sort of records to substantiate the hours worked. Now times have changed and telework IS accepted as legitimate work. But I think that a slightly higher level of scrutiny for those who are out there on their own is the price you pay for being out there on your own, and is appropriate. At SSA a supervisor does not even have to stroll the office to see if employees are working (or at least generating keystrokes on the computer) - we can be monitored via Lync wherever we are working. And for those of you outside the Agency, mouse jigglers are officially forbidden so don't get any ideas. We all have different working styles, but I tend to be more productive at home than at the office. I'm not sure ALJs have to stay logged onto Lync when working from home, so less ability to monitor. NTEU does. AFGE does not.
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Post by christina on Aug 23, 2015 8:36:20 GMT -5
truthfully though, they are government laptops. so if you are not using it for a long period, there are computer techs who can monitor that even if you're not required to be on lync. are we at that degree of monitoring? don't know but assume we are or govt could backtrack that info years later if they want to.
My best advice is that if you say you are working 9 to 5:30, make sure you are in fact working during that period. personally, if you work best from 12 to 8, i don't care as long as everyone who says they worked a full day in fact puts in a full day(and i say that from a taxpayer perspective). But SSA does care about the timing. we have so many leave options, it is much easier and wiser to charge that hour that something came up at home to leave rather than say you were working.
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Post by lonestar on Aug 23, 2015 11:12:19 GMT -5
As someone who telework for the Agency, they can and will monitor you via Lync. You also have the availability to flex during the day; however, you need to let your supervisor know and sign in and out accordingly. Yes, there are micro managers among some of the management staff, but overall, I would say the Agency actually encourages telework and most managers are accommodating.
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Post by ba on Aug 23, 2015 11:44:49 GMT -5
As someone who telework for the Agency, they can and will monitor you via Lync. You also have the availability to flex during the day; however, you need to let your supervisor know and sign in and out accordingly. Yes, there are micro managers among some of the management staff, but overall, I would say the Agency actually encourages telework and most managers are accommodating. It is telework that has opened up nonconforming office space for new ALJs to be hired.
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Post by hopefalj on Aug 23, 2015 11:45:35 GMT -5
There aren't that many ways to get fired. Abusing telework/falsifying time sheets is one of them. johnsprag is right that no one will care too much so long as you're hitting agency goals... so long as the agency doesn't catch heat over it.
I always liked telework because of the flexibility. I could roll out of bed at 6:20 and be logged on and working by 6:30. No shower necessary before working at home! Pajamas are appropriate attire! Shirts are optional! I could use my lunch break to mow the yard or hit golf balls. I could flex out for doctor's appointments if I didn't want to use sick leave or if I had an errand to run. I could have a plumber/HVAC guy/cable guy come work on stuff without having to use leave or credit. There is a lot of freedom while working at home, but you are still expected to work your 7.5 hours.
Hopefully one at the union can get credit hours for ALJs working from home.
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