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Post by jagghagg on Jul 2, 2009 14:21:05 GMT -5
For a change pace, who knows to whom is truly due the honorific "The Honorable"? A short google of the question only gave me Wikipedia, of which I am usually suspicious. But it does indicate it is due only to those elected and/or appointed. Which would pretty much leave out ALJs who are hired. I'm not saying I know the answer or am taking a position, ....although I just got back from lunch with two of our colleagues who ARE ALJs and you can imagine where THEY stood on the question!! ;D
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Post by pedaltone on Jul 2, 2009 15:36:45 GMT -5
For a change pace, who knows to whom is truly due the honorific "The Honorable"? A short google of the question only gave me Wikipedia, of which I am usually suspicious. But it does indicate it is due only to those elected and/or appointed. Which would pretty much leave out ALJs who are hired. I'm not saying I know the answer or am taking a position, ....although I just got back from lunch with two of our colleagues who ARE ALJs and you can imagine where THEY stood on the question!! ;D Good question; one that reaches beyond this sphere. Federal Magistrate Judges tend to get the honorific treatment but only are appointed in the sense of being hired by federal district court judges (rather than the nomination/confirmation process).
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Post by morgullord on Jul 2, 2009 16:31:46 GMT -5
Elected officials, and ranking government officials are entitled to be so addressed. Minor officials and bureaucrats, including ALJs, are not entitled to be so addressed.
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Post by morgullord on Jul 2, 2009 16:49:14 GMT -5
Military officers of flag and field grade rank are also so entitled.
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Post by wallace on Jul 2, 2009 17:35:47 GMT -5
It's my understanding, JH, that ALJs are in fact "appointed" by the COSS. At least that's what my Certificate of Appointment reads.
Regardless, I don't recall getting any mail addressed to the Honorable . . . .
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Post by privateatty on Jul 2, 2009 23:32:35 GMT -5
Elected officials, and ranking government officials are entitled to be so addressed. Minor officials and bureaucrats, including ALJs, are not entitled to be so addressed. With all due respect, your authority for this is.....what? I read 5 USC Sec. 551 et. seq. differently.
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Post by southerner on Jul 3, 2009 13:32:32 GMT -5
My bar association mail is addressed to Hon. XXXXX as are the communications from counsel on a specific case.
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Post by johnthornton on Jul 3, 2009 19:36:11 GMT -5
Oh my gosh, Southerner! You should write and tell them you are not entitled to that honorific. After all, you are not an elected Justice of the Peace hearing parking ticket cases. Just tell him the posters on this board demanded you set them straight.
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Post by decadealj on Jul 4, 2009 10:35:34 GMT -5
This is the most sour grapes thread I can imagine. I have never claimed honorific status but the oldest law school in the United States, my state bar association, and the local bar don't have a problem with it. GET A LIFE!
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Post by jagghagg on Jul 4, 2009 12:18:27 GMT -5
This is the most sour grapes thread I can imagine. . . . GET A LIFE! Wow, Decade - I didn't see this as either a negative or positive thread, nor found the posters adopting a sour grapes attitude. I was just curious; that's all. I mean, yeah, I DO like to be addressed as the She, the Dark Overlord of the Universe, but - Ouch!!..... chill a bit, dude.... ![;)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/wink.png)
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Post by johnthornton on Jul 4, 2009 13:09:18 GMT -5
For a change pace, who knows to whom is truly due the honorific "The Honorable"? A short google of the question only gave me Wikipedia, of which I am usually suspicious. But it does indicate it is due only to those elected and/or appointed. Which would pretty much leave out ALJs who are hired. Go back and read the Wikipedia entry. The bar for being referred to as "The Honorable" is not very high---but I think there is little doubt that ALJs qualify. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Honourable#United_States
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Post by jagghagg on Jul 4, 2009 14:11:23 GMT -5
Go back and read the Wikipedia entry. The bar for being referred to as "The Honorable" is not very high---but I think there is little doubt that ALJs qualify. Hey-soos, I wasn't posing the thread as an argument! Just drifting off in other areas ... See: For a change pace, who knows to whom is truly due the honorific I'm not saying I know the answer or am taking a position, .... ;D I'm sorry this was taken as some sort of challenge. Call yerselves whatcha want - makes no difference to me. I refer to the Decision Maker by any darn title they wish to adopt. Heard and Understood.
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Post by johnthornton on Jul 4, 2009 14:26:37 GMT -5
We know baiting when we see baiting. We know sour grapes when we see sour grapes. Have a nice day.
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Post by Pixie on Jul 4, 2009 15:27:51 GMT -5
When this thread was started, I wondered about the purpose and which direction it would take. Two days later I am still wondering. I'm not locking it yet, but I think it has pretty much reached the end of its useful life, if it ever had one. Pix.
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Post by jagghagg on Jul 4, 2009 16:24:10 GMT -5
Lock it! Please lock it! DELETE IT !!! There was no baiting intended. I sincerely apolgize to anyone and everyone who thought otherwise; clearly it was thoughtless of me, and I feel awful,
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Post by privateatty on Jul 5, 2009 8:58:05 GMT -5
jagghagg was trying to have an intelligent, diverting discussion. There was no expression or even undercurrent of sour grapes on her part.
What ever happened to the Golden Rule?
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Post by decadealj on Jul 5, 2009 14:12:36 GMT -5
I usually have a pretty thick hide but I am starting to finally realize why the ALJs at Labor and the Coast Guard (FALJC also comes to mind) referred to SSA ALJs as paranoid. The reason for those of us who have been around awhile is to understand how SSA has regained absolute control of the hearing process and accomplished what it has wanted since the hearing officer to ALJ transition. My common thread throughout these posts is to suggest to new ALJs, and those who surendered the good fight is someone is supposed to be ensuring due process and guardianship of the APA. We never have been able to bring any procedural or evidentiary order to this process without getting hammered and my difficulty is wondering where on earth our CALJ and RCALJs are doing to defend us from any more initiatives that slow us and actually impede us in our work.. Soon we will be dictated by the new electronic business process- Heaven help us!
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Post by jagghagg on Jul 6, 2009 9:35:34 GMT -5
I tend to favor "Dark Overlord"....... but "Your Flibbertigibbetness" is a lot more accurate!
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Post by carjack on Jul 6, 2009 14:14:56 GMT -5
I've also learned that when in court and referring to the judge as "your honor" it's best not to use air quotes.
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Post by Legal Beagle on Jul 6, 2009 19:02:36 GMT -5
Or there is Your Ornery-ness, but NEVER, NEVER try to imitate Dan Akroyd from his Saturday Night Live days . . . and say: "Judge, you ignorant very *friendly* person."
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