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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 16, 2014 19:20:03 GMT -5
Funkyodar and others. I am on the register, wide open GAL, estimate top 1/3 or a bit lower. I know I can only control my interview and references. Nonetheless, not that I have a choice, but if I am in the first cert I am near the bottom, getting passed over always a possibility. Would I have better odds in a second cert where I am closer to the top of the cert? I think your scenario is the one that veterans of this process are referring to when they say "scores don't matter." Conventional wisdom is that once you get on a cert, the outcome of the interview, your GAL and references are what matters. That you scored 76 while someone else on the first cert scored 80 ... or that you scored 76 while someone else on the second cert scored 73, won't matter much if at all. BTW, I agree with Funky that if your score is "top 1/3 or a bit lower" (by which I assume you mean 75-76) and your GAL is "wide open" (by which I assume you mean 150+ cities), you'll definitely be on the first cert. And if they like you and your references check out, you'll be in great shape since they can put you in 150+ different places. They can only put you in the cities in which you are a high 3. So if you are the high scorer in all 150 cities then yes those are in play. At least this is how I understand it. Even though you may have 179 places on your GAL if you are only a high 3 scorer for 5 of those, you are only considered for those 5. Is this right?
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Post by moopigsdad on Mar 16, 2014 19:37:34 GMT -5
I think your scenario is the one that veterans of this process are referring to when they say "scores don't matter." Conventional wisdom is that once you get on a cert, the outcome of the interview, your GAL and references are what matters. That you scored 76 while someone else on the first cert scored 80 ... or that you scored 76 while someone else on the second cert scored 73, won't matter much if at all. BTW, I agree with Funky that if your score is "top 1/3 or a bit lower" (by which I assume you mean 75-76) and your GAL is "wide open" (by which I assume you mean 150+ cities), you'll definitely be on the first cert. And if they like you and your references check out, you'll be in great shape since they can put you in 150+ different places. They can only put you in the cities in which you are a high 3. So if you are the high scorer in all 150 cities then yes those are in play. At least this is how I understand it. Even though you may have 179 places on your GAL if you are only a high 3 scorer for 5 of those, you are only considered for those 5. is this right? It is my understanding of previous posts on this issue, you are absolutely correct in your assumption sratty.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 16, 2014 19:56:58 GMT -5
They can only put you in the cities in which you are a high 3. So if you are the high scorer in all 150 cities then yes those are in play. At least this is how I understand it. Even though you may have 179 places on your GAL if you are only a high 3 scorer for 5 of those, you are only considered for those 5. is this right? It is my understanding of previous posts on this issue, you are absolutely correct in your assumption sratty. I think its mostly right but what cities you are high 3 in is a moving target. Assume for instance a candidate with a high score and wide gal is in the high 3 for several cities. Someone else on the cert may be high 3 in only a couple but 4 or 5 on others. Once the high scorer is hired or three struck, then next cities they consider will no longer have him/her and the person that was next in line would have to be elevated. right? Too many funkin variables.
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Post by MoStateALJ on Mar 16, 2014 19:57:12 GMT -5
Funky, i'm still trying to understand this confusing system. If I get an offer to East Crapland and then turn it down, I thought that meant I could never get an offer from that city again (at least not from this register). Your post indicates turning down an offer would probably mean I never get a federal ALJ job. Please elaborate. Would declining an offer blacklist the applicant from all offers?
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 16, 2014 20:03:38 GMT -5
There is a great post on here somewhere where somebody went into detail on declinations. I read it recently but can't recall the specifics.
I seem to recall that at some point a declination olf an offer gets you pulled from the register for a year but that may be after multiple decs.
The general consensus from the learned folks on here and others I've talked to is decline an offer and you won't get another. Maybe unfair, butin reality you would have certified to them twice (when choosing gal and again on the cert) that you would take the gig if offered in any of the cities on your gal.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 16, 2014 20:17:34 GMT -5
There is a great post on here somewhere where somebody went into detail on declinations. I read it recently but can't recall the specifics. I seem to recall that at some point a declination olf an offer gets you pulled from the register for a year but that may be after multiple decs. The general consensus from the learned folks on here and others I've talked to is decline an offer and you won't get another. Maybe unfair, butin reality you would have certified to them twice (when choosing gal and again on the cert) that you would take the gig if offered in any of the cities on your gal. This is my understanding as well and this is why you only want cities on your GAL that you will be willing to take. One trick pony on offers!
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 16, 2014 20:23:02 GMT -5
It is my understanding of previous posts on this issue, you are absolutely correct in your assumption sratty. I think its mostly right but what cities you are high 3 in is a moving target. Assume for instance a candidate with a high score and wide gal is in the high 3 for several cities. Someone else on the cert may be high 3 in only a couple but 4 or 5 on others. Once the high scorer is hired or three struck, then next cities they consider will no longer have him/her and the person that was next in line would have to be elevated. right? Too many funkin variables. Ugh and now my brain hurts! LOL! Actually I thought once you get the email it has a definitive list of cities for which you are high 3. And those are the only chances. I could be wrong.
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Post by aintgottaclue on Mar 16, 2014 20:40:34 GMT -5
Hi gang. Been following this board for quite a while but I'm a first-time poster. Thanks for all the info. My tale of wo is this: like at least one other poster I allegedly fell on the blade of a written demo that didn't measure up. Like the other guy/gal I Know this is absolute nonsense. Ive been drafting briefs...recommended decisions and all manner of legal documents with a high degree of success for closing in on two decades. My question is: what do I need to do to e ffectuate an appeal and what would it need to contain? Another query would be: can I find anything out about my scoring with a FOIA? Ordinarily I would just swallow the kool-aid and move on but Im getting a definite No Irish Need Apply feeling on this one. Any insights appreciated.
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Post by westernalj on Mar 16, 2014 20:43:07 GMT -5
sratty, I believe that is wrong. The list of cities will be those for which they are hiring and for which you previously indicated a willingness to go. You will have a chance to indicate continued interest. As Funky pointed out, the high three is a moving target as they make decisions about different locations.
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Post by Highlander on Mar 16, 2014 20:45:42 GMT -5
I apologize for asking if this has been answered elsewhere, but I am still a little unclear on the mechanics of the next phase. Let's say I am fortunate enough to make the cert...and that given my wide open GAL, I am in the top 3 in 5 locations. How many locations am I considered for? Only 1, or more than that? How do they decide which of the 5 locations I am considered for? Am I told what locations I am being considered for? If so, at what point in the process?
Also, if the cert has 300 people on it to fill 90 spots, and they consider the top 3 for each position, I am unclear how the math works if some applicants are considered for more than one position...just as I am surprised that someone can be "3 struck" on one cert and permanently removed from the register.
Again, sorry for asking questions that have likely been asked and answered
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 16, 2014 20:55:03 GMT -5
sratty, I believe that is wrong. The list of cities will be those for which they are hiring and for which you previously indicated a willingness to go. You will have a chance to indicate continued interest. As Funky pointed out, the high three is a moving target as they make decisions about different locations. Exactly.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 16, 2014 20:56:55 GMT -5
sratty, I believe that is wrong. The list of cities will be those for which they are hiring and for which you previously indicated a willingness to go. You will have a chance to indicate continued interest. As Funky pointed out, the high three is a moving target as they make decisions about different locations. This is a better scenario than I understood. So if I have a high 3 on just one city in my GAL, this gets me the ticket to dance and I am then considered for every city on my GAL in the cities they are hiring? So I need only have the one high 3 score to open the door to the rest of my GAL/ cities at issue?
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 16, 2014 21:05:00 GMT -5
I apologize for asking if this has been answered elsewhere, but I am still a little unclear on the mechanics of the next phase. Let's say I am fortunate enough to make the cert...and that given my wide open GAL, I am in the top 3 in 5 locations. How many locations am I considered for? Only 1, or more than that? How do they decide which of the 5 locations I am considered for? Am I told what locations I am being considered for? If so, at what point in the process? Also, if the cert has 300 people on it to fill 90 spots, and they consider the top 3 for each position, I am unclear how the math works if some applicants are considered for more than one position...just as I am surprised that someone can be "3 struck" on one cert and permanently removed from the register. Again, sorry for asking questions that have likely been asked and answered These are not new questions, but here goes. Depending on how things fall as they go through the selection process, you could theoretically be considered for a position in any of the cities on your GAL that is also on the cert. You are not told more than what cities are on the cert that match your GAL. Being three struck by an agency can happen on one cert, but it does not mean permanent removal from the register. It just means that agency does not have to give you further consideration, but they can, if they struck you not because they don't want you, but because they had someone else they wanted to get to that time around. During the selection process, as choices are made, someone could be considered for more than one position in a different city or sometimes in the same city. It's a more complicated process than just "top three for each posiiton". Figuring out how it all actually works, when it comes down to making the selections, is not worth frying your brain over. Control what you can, if you make a cert... the interview, and choosing your references.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 16, 2014 21:06:24 GMT -5
sratty, I believe that is wrong. The list of cities will be those for which they are hiring and for which you previously indicated a willingness to go. You will have a chance to indicate continued interest. As Funky pointed out, the high three is a moving target as they make decisions about different locations. This is a better scenario than I understood. So if I have a high 3 on just one city in my GAL, this gets me the ticket to dance and I am then considered for every city on my GAL in the cities they are hiring? So I need only have the one high 3 score to open the door to the rest of my GAL/ cities at issue? Theoretically, yes... it all depends on how the dominoes fall in the actual selection process.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 16, 2014 21:08:37 GMT -5
This is the way I understand it, please correct if wrong.
Being in the high 3 for any city on the cert gets you on the cert. They will send you a form with all the cities on the cert and ask you if you still would go there even though you ate then only in consideration for the one city. You won't know which.
If u don't strike the city u are competing for due to your ignorance you are on the cert and initially only considered for that city. But as hires and strikea occur your score may be elevated into consideration for other cities on your gal that u didn't strike and are on the cert. But only if your score gets bumped into the high 3 by others getting offers or struck.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 16, 2014 21:14:54 GMT -5
This is how I am only now seeing this. I had it wrong.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 16, 2014 21:28:24 GMT -5
I apologize for asking if this has been answered elsewhere, but I am still a little unclear on the mechanics of the next phase. Let's say I am fortunate enough to make the cert...and that given my wide open GAL, I am in the top 3 in 5 locations. How many locations am I considered for? Only 1, or more than that? How do they decide which of the 5 locations I am considered for? Am I told what locations I am being considered for? If so, at what point in the process? Also, if the cert has 300 people on it to fill 90 spots, and they consider the top 3 for each position, I am unclear how the math works if some applicants are considered for more than one position...just as I am surprised that someone can be "3 struck" on one cert and permanently removed from the register. Again, sorry for asking questions that have likely been asked and answered Observer hit on most of your questions and as usual appears spot on. As to the math, opm always sends some number more than just 3x the slots. This is due to ties and pure convenience. There will be some declinations and some who strike the very city they are on the cert for. So 3x exactly the slotsis routinely not enough to actually get 3 candidates for each slot. More on declinations. don t get confused. striking a city (aka declining to beinterviewed for a specific city) will ensure you never get on a cert for that city again, but its not a "declination" and doesn't have any further negative impact. If you actually get an offer to a city on your gal and you didn't strike, you better be willing to take it. the actual rule is if you decline 2 offers you are removed from the register entirely for a year. in reality though, odar puts much effort in choosing you and finding a slot for you. turning it down after telling them you would take it will cause them much more work finding another and may have a dominoe affect on others. Thus, in reality if you decline, you probably never get another offer.
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Post by funkyodar on Mar 16, 2014 21:31:16 GMT -5
Moral of the story is all of us that said we would go anywhere will get one chance to cut that down. otherwise we better have meant we would go anywhere.
While many are now dismaying their limited gal choices, playing the game wide open has its own risks.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 16, 2014 21:40:58 GMT -5
Moral of the story is all of us that said we would go anywhere will get one chance to cut that down. otherwise we better have meant we would go anywhere. While many are now dismaying their limited gal choices, playing the game wide open has its own risks. Precisely. I will be doing some pruning when the opportunity arises. Looking at that list a year later is a new experience.
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Post by JudgeRatty on Mar 16, 2014 21:42:02 GMT -5
Moral of the story is all of us that said we would go anywhere will get one chance to cut that down. otherwise we better have meant we would go anywhere. While many are now dismaying their limited gal choices, playing the game wide open has its own risks. I bet the people involved in all this were good at those slide puzzles or those peg games we used to play as kids. Saw one at a restaurant not long ago and thought of this whole mess! It's like a real rubicks cube scenario with live people.
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