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Post by banks on Jun 29, 2016 12:23:47 GMT -5
I took the SJT last night. I found it more challenging than I did three years ago. I guess perspective is everything. I really didn't care then, but I do now.
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Post by worrywart on Jun 29, 2016 12:54:47 GMT -5
I took the SJT last night. I found it more challenging than I did three years ago. I guess perspective is everything. I really didn't care then, but I do now. I felt the same way. I see details!
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Post by neufenland on Jun 29, 2016 13:17:01 GMT -5
I finished my test and wound up with plenty of time leftover on both timed sections. I'm having bad flashbacks to law school exams and feeling like I missed something. Anyway, glad it's over. I'm still thinking it's a bit ridiculous to have questions about what to do with opposing attorneys when the job I'm applying for doesn't involve more than one attorney at a time, but oh well. The experience assessment was more aggravating than I expected - I can barely remember what percentage of what duties I did over a decade ago. Remember that you are applying to get a list of OPM approved candidates (as qualified) for ALJ positions - while the majority of these slots are SSA(ODAR/OMHA) there are other agencies that have ALJs and those do have a process in place that has multiple players with counsel. Dept of Labor for example has ALJs that hear Black Lung (BLBA), Longshore and harbor workers compensation act claims (LHWCA), Defense Base Act comp claims, Davis Bacon claims, then there is the independent MSHA board - The Federal Mine Safety and Health Review Commission - (FMSHRC) is an independent adjudicative agency that provides administrative trial and appellate review of legal disputes arising under the Federal Mine Safety and Health Act (Mine Act). There is the Administrative Review Board (ARB), the Occupational Health and Safety Review Commission - which is an independent federal agency, providing administrative trial and appellate review, created to decide contests of citations or penalties resulting from OSHA inspections. All tend to list openings asking for experienced ALJs although I believe in the past they have also asked for an OPM cert. Lately I have seen most of the postings for these jobs are looking for ALJs with a few years of experience - and where do most ALJs get experience - before SSA and OMHA - so yes control of a court room and experience with an adversarial process is helpful and is something OPM should be screening for - shoot given the volume of applicants - why shouldn't they try to find the most qualified possible? My review of previous threads indicates that this is a controversial topic. My guess is the way one feels about it depends on one's own individual background and not much will change that. People with more of one kind of experience set feel that they would have more to offer as an ALJ in SSA than those with a different experience set (and, of course, vice versa).
The fact of the matter is, though, none of us can change what those on Olympus want (and no one really knows for sure what is or isn't good enough until the results come in).
As far as how I feel after taking the thing: I don't have the first damn clue. I don't feel good about it, but I don't feel miserable, either. I've just really got to try and not invest too much hope in any of this.
I'm cynical and pessimistic by nature, so that shouldn't be too hard.
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Post by pubdef on Jun 29, 2016 13:19:53 GMT -5
I took the SJT last night. I found it more challenging than I did three years ago. I guess perspective is everything. I really didn't care then, but I do now. I felt the same way. I see details! Yikes, let's not use the SD verbiage! Ahem. I also found it more challenging than in 2013.
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Post by monday on Jun 29, 2016 13:23:10 GMT -5
They can ask for whatever they want, but I still find it silly to be quizzed about a set of circumstances that could only occur in a job that I don't want, haven't applied for, and almost certainly will never apply for. I'd rather be tested on my ability to be an ALJ with ODAR, but no one with any power asked me or ever will.
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Post by worrywart on Jun 29, 2016 13:36:00 GMT -5
They can ask for whatever they want, but I still find it silly to be quizzed about a set of circumstances that could only occur in a job that I don't want, haven't applied for, and almost certainly will never apply for. I'd rather be tested on my ability to be an ALJ with ODAR, but no one with any power asked me or ever will. I thought this was an issue in 2013 when so many insiders did not make it past step 2. Just saying...
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Post by bayou on Jun 29, 2016 13:37:10 GMT -5
They can ask for whatever they want, but I still find it silly to be quizzed about a set of circumstances that could only occur in a job that I don't want, haven't applied for, and almost certainly will never apply for. I'd rather be tested on my ability to be an ALJ with ODAR, but no one with any power asked me or ever will. I think you are missing the point. You are applying to be considered for an ALJ position with any agency that has ALJs; not just SSA.
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jun 29, 2016 14:18:59 GMT -5
neufenland - Absolutely - I am not trying to say only those with adversarial experience make good judges. Insiders have the leg up with respect to knowing the law and being known quantities - similarly claim reps know the law and to the extent they have a positive rep with mgmt - that has to be an advantage. I expect both of those groups may score very well on the interview and the experience assessment as a result. I was only pointing out- in response to monday why OPM included in the SJT so many vignettes with adversarial issues that it was because some alj hearings are adversarial in nature and OPM only wants to set up 1 process instead of managing 2 different ones. This one is lengthy and very time consuming for OPM so I am sure they do not want to have multiple processes. Adversarial experience does provide a different experience that can be valuable. Looking over the factors/qualities that OPM states they are looking for - clearly there is some effort to get to well rounded and experienced individuals. We could all point to ALJs, state and federal judges who are well qualified and then those that we scratch our head about... same is true for any of us in a larger office - we can look around and see folks that more than earn their keep and again others that we wonder about... Since I have been management as well as staff - all I can say is management does the best it can with the facts presented in selecting new hires. Sometimes the process fails sometimes the personal judgment in selection fails. To err is human after all. Good luck to all!
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Post by sealaw90 on Jun 29, 2016 14:43:39 GMT -5
I felt the same way. I see details! Yikes, let's not use the SD verbiage! Ahem. I also found it more challenging than in 2013. PubDef, You say the SJT is more challenging this time around (or at least feels that way) but did OPM actually change the questions? I am not asking for details as that would violate confidentiality, but what I am looking for is whether the same exam is being used by OPM in 2016 to add names to a register that was created in 2014 based on a 2013 testing cycle?
My reading of the OPM regs and the way OPM creates a register is that the same testing criteria must be used for all candidates to get on the same register. So the questions are supposed to be the same, or at least from the same "bank" of questions being utilized for purposes of the test.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (Oh Gary!) but I get worried when PubDef says it was more challenging than 2013.
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Post by pubdef on Jun 29, 2016 15:01:00 GMT -5
Yikes, let's not use the SD verbiage! Ahem. I also found it more challenging than in 2013. PubDef, You say the SJT is more challenging this time around (or at least feels that way) but did OPM actually change the questions? I am not asking for details as that would violate confidentiality, but what I am looking for is whether the same exam is being used by OPM in 2016 to add names to a register that was created in 2014 based on a 2013 testing cycle?
My reading of the OPM regs and the way OPM creates a register is that the same testing criteria must be used for all candidates to get on the same register. So the questions are supposed to be the same, or at least from the same "bank" of questions being utilized for purposes of the test.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (Oh Gary!) but I get worried when PubDef says it was more challenging than 2013.
I should make it clear that it only seemed harder. In part because I care a little more, and in another part because I'm didn't approach it as black and white. From my recollection, the SJT was the same. I had flashbacks while taking it. I personally don't think saying this violates the confidentiality agreement as it's just saying the same SJT seemed to be applied during the refresh.
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Post by marten77 on Jun 29, 2016 15:03:12 GMT -5
Yikes, let's not use the SD verbiage! Ahem. I also found it more challenging than in 2013. PubDef, You say the SJT is more challenging this time around (or at least feels that way) but did OPM actually change the questions? I am not asking for details as that would violate confidentiality, but what I am looking for is whether the same exam is being used by OPM in 2016 to add names to a register that was created in 2014 based on a 2013 testing cycle?
My reading of the OPM regs and the way OPM creates a register is that the same testing criteria must be used for all candidates to get on the same register. So the questions are supposed to be the same, or at least from the same "bank" of questions being utilized for purposes of the test.
Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (Oh Gary!) but I get worried when PubDef says it was more challenging than 2013.
My two cents, from what I could remember from 2013, the SJT and writing sample were unchanged in question and format from 2013. While that may seem like a benefit at first, but having lost out on being in the higher scoring sub-group in 2013 as I did, I could see how it would feel harder by perhaps second guessing your answers to avoid a repeat performance. One caveat, though. There was (at least to me) a significant notable difference in the definitions of the ratings descriptions for the Experience Assessment from the 2013 online component. However, I hesitate to speak further on that without setting off klaxons.
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Post by basileia on Jun 29, 2016 15:15:39 GMT -5
I took the SJT last night. I found it more challenging than I did three years ago. I guess perspective is everything. I really didn't care then, but I do now. I felt the same way. I see details! I just finished it and I don't think I found it easier or more difficult, but I think I approached some things slightly differently than I did the last time. (I was one of those who made it through DC testing last time, but then got disqualified based on my judicial employee bar licence).
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Post by floridaladylaw on Jun 29, 2016 16:51:26 GMT -5
Cut and paste is allowed for the EA. Very, very, useful way to complete text box, off-line, so you don't get timed out and, if you have not saved, potentially lose all your work.
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Post by banks on Jun 29, 2016 17:50:44 GMT -5
I think it was tweeked but I could be hallucinating.
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misha
Full Member
Posts: 64
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Post by misha on Jun 29, 2016 18:37:47 GMT -5
In my humble experience, feeling challenged by a written test often means that you did well. In contrast, arrogance and the over-estimation of one's intellect and performance is the fatal flaw of many high-acheivers, including (perhaps ESPECIALLY) attorneys.
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Post by sealaw90 on Jun 29, 2016 19:58:02 GMT -5
In my humble experience, feeling challenged by a written test often means that you did well. In contrast, arrogance and the over-estimation of one's intellect and performance is the fatal flaw of many high-acheivers, including (perhaps ESPECIALLY) attorneys. Not me. I had a special 'gift'. If I walked out of a test feeling like I failed, well I did or came pretty darn close to failing. When I walked out thinking I nailed it, I most certainly did. I walked out of DC thinking neither. I got outside, lit a cigarette and thanked God it was over. Then I've been replaying over and over until my SSA interview. That has been replayed over and over. Hmm, is there a diagnosis for this condition somewhere in the DSM???
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Post by Pixie on Jun 29, 2016 20:18:52 GMT -5
I am the same as you, Sealaw90. I walked out of the OPM interview thinking it had gone well; it had. Same with the Falls Church interview. With the WD I knew I had bombed it; I had. Back then we had to write our answer by hand in a "blue book" format. I hadn't done it that way since law school. All of my discoveries, answers, letters, motions, pleadings, etc. had been by dictation. Handwriting a complex "answer" to a test question was alien to me. And it showed. My fingers were cramping before I was less than 1/2 finished. I still ended up with a very good score, in spite of the WD.
Today I type everything. If it is going out of the office, I send it to the HOD, or her designee, for formatting and then I sign it. Only takes the HOD a few minutes to make it look pretty (she is a wizard). If I took the WD today, I would fare much better as it is a typewritten test. Pixie
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Post by hopefulop on Jun 29, 2016 20:31:47 GMT -5
OK so I am now done. Finished the first two parts last week but put off the experience assessment. Like others, I finished the timed parts early. However, I was really dreading the third part -- probably out of being traumatized by the application process in terms of worrying about putting in enough details, etc. But now it's all done and I can hopefully quit obsessing over this process and this board and relax a little until the time for the next email comes around --whenever that may be. Thanks to all the support from newbies and the veteran board members. Much appreciated. Good luck to everyone - wherever you are in this long process
PS: I just happen to think - all the waiting and angst -- probably what claimants feel when their attorney tells them their application process could take years to get to a hearing!
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sobecharlie
New Member
Counsel . . . approach the bench
Posts: 7
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Post by sobecharlie on Jun 29, 2016 22:43:31 GMT -5
This is my first post.
Just took the SJT and the writing test. OMG how easy! Musta had 40 minutes left on the SJT and wrote, I dunno, like 1600 words on the writing test. I think I threw in something about Game of Thrones. 'Course I was 11 beers in by that time. Uh, do ALJs have access to open bar during hearing hours?
The SJT format was enjoyable in a perverse way. The sample questions showed that pretty clearly. You got to catch a satisfying whiff of rectitude and nobility in choosing the most likely response. But there was something devilishly enjoyable about entertaining the least likely course. It reminded me of the chief resident superior court judge back to home, who seemed to relish denying motions. You'd be up arguing your motion and as you made your obviously brilliant, unassailable points, you'd eventually see "the look" come across his face. And then the ruling you knew was coming: "Motion to apply the law dee-nied!" To him, nothing was more delicious than the taste of broken lawyer dreams.
I had some real issues with the video portion. The characters. They seemed so . . . two dimensional.
And the poor ALJ (ALJ Lee?). She was, well, sad. I wanted to give her a hug, or a snickers or something. Maybe she needed some time off - go on a cruise. I dunno.
Tomorrow the Experience Assessment. My Nobel Prize will come in handy for that. But yeah. The SJT and the writing test were awesome. They were what you would expect from a testing vehicle created by diabolical organizational psychologists. I know, I know - redundant.
But okay since we're talking mental health and must cop to it: Axis I - Alcohol Use Disorder, Severe - Unipolar Mania Axis II - Narcissistic Personality Disorder
Okay that was fun. I hope you enjoyed. It is my way of saying thank you to all the dedicated folks who provided the invaluable information that truly did help me prepare. This discussion board is an amazing resource. I'm grateful for the time the moderators have taken to maintain it and answer the questions from all us new folks who really have little idea what kind of water we're wading into. I could not have navigated the initial application process without this resource. Seriously. You are an oracle. Many thanks.
Phase II is a different deal. The discussion of the two sample questions told me a bunch: this weren't the multiple-choice quiz I took on that fragrant mimeograph paper in 5th grade. Nothing is obvious. There is no consensus among this group. Use your brain, use your experience, use your intuition and go on to the next question.
Okay, tomorrow the Experience Assessment! But first to the beer store for another 12-pack. I'll report back tomorrow. Until then, seriously, ALJ Lee. I'm concerned. She needs some joy in her life. Work-life balance, people . . . can you work on her for me?
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Post by Pixie on Jun 29, 2016 23:00:36 GMT -5
What an novel post for a newbie. Will be interested to see what you have to say in the future. Welcome to the forum. Pixie
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