GS 15 and the choice to become an ALJ

[numbersix]

_{This question goes out to colleagues who are GS 15s and want to become ALJs, or were GS 15s and are now ALJs.  I've always wanted to know - what motivated you to leave behind your practice area of expertise?  Don't get me wrong, I enjoy the work, especially the hearings.  And it's certainly an honor to hold the position.  But, if you are/were a GS 15, you are an acknowledged expert in your field, likely enjoy your area of practice, you max out at only $10,000 less than an ALJ, and you definitely did/do not have to move far away from home.  You are home.  I'd love to know your motivations for taking the plunge.  And a Happy New Year to us all!}

[zebra51]

Interesting Question. I just got a promotion to GS-15 (start on PP beginning 1/8), YEAH!. If I don't get a NOR it definitely won't hurt as much. I have a wide open GAL and if I do get a NOR I will be more selective that I would have before the promotion.

Some of my motivations for a change would be location, location, location. I love being in the desert southwest but would like to spend a few years were I could be close to big water.

The other consideration is making a better high three. I have about 2.3 years till retirement eligible (although don't plan on going that soon). With the ALJ advancing my pay a bit faster that GS-15, if given an offer, I would look at how that might affect my high three at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc years.

Also, a past SSA writer and like the work.

Bottom line a balance between location and high three. We are planning on retiring to a 40-50 foot trawler cruising for a few years (Keys, Bahamas, ICW, Great Loop). If offer came for a location that lends itself to being near cruising retirement location and the high three numbers worked would take the plunge.

[chudley]

Dec 31, 2016 18:29:33 GMT -5 zebra51 said:

Interesting Question. I just got a promotion to GS-15 (start on PP beginning 1/8), YEAH!. If I don't get a NOR it definitely won't hurt as much. I have a wide open GAL and if I do get a NOR I will be more selective that I would have before the promotion.

Some of my motivations for a change would be location, location, location. I love being in the desert southwest but would like to spend a few years were I could be close to big water.

The other consideration is making a better high three. I have about 2.3 years till retirement eligible (although don't plan on going that soon). With the ALJ advancing my pay a bit faster that GS-15, if given an offer, I would look at how that might affect my high three at 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, etc years.

Also, a past SSA writer and like the work.

Bottom line a balance between location and high three. We are planning on retiring to a 40-50 foot trawler cruising for a few years (Keys, Bahamas, ICW, Great Loop). If offer came for a location that lends itself to being near cruising retirement location and the high three numbers worked would take the plunge.

Love your retirement plan!

[Deleted]

I'd be interested in hearing the journey from writer to 15

Love the retirement plan too

[Deleted]

I know I would have to leave SSA Im just wondering who hired him away from SSA with SSA experience. I feel pretty pigeonholed into this niche practice area.

I would think a huge consideration for a 15 would be how much you like what you're doing and how much variety you see. I think most of the ALJs here would agree an SSA ALJ does a very similar task every single day over and over again, 500+ times per year. The issues in these cases don't vary much. I actually don't think it would be that different than writing other than the the logistics of actually holding the hearing and talking to people. I hear a lot of language at the beginning of hearings that is obviously being read from a script. Generally very similar questions are asked at each hearing, answers are pretty similar too.

[zebra51]

Very non-traditional career path. Quickly - Navy Nuclear enlisted, VA as Safety Professional, 6 years non-ABA night law school while working, VA as Human Resources Specialist, Hang out a shingle doing what ever walks in, Stayed Navy Reserve through all that and retired enlisted JAG, got SSA writer gig (at time one of only Feds that would hire non-ABA), other feds start taking apps from Non-ABA schools got my current job doing some specialty law and a bunch of HR type litigation (yes that is purposely vague).

[rp]

I am 15 equivalent on another fed pay plan - AD 29.  I have been maxed out for years (can only get the raises from the President now).  I am in a niche litigation area and am frankly weary of the work. I have just a few more years left than Zebra51 -- just looking for a change and $10,000 more per year (and a greater high three) wouldn't hurt my feelings either.

[christina]

Dec 31, 2016 19:42:10 GMT -5 @saturn4147 said:

Dec 31, 2016 19:33:14 GMT -5 @lonelywriter said:

I'd be interested in hearing the journey from writer to 15

You have to leave SSA lonely.  Need to go to a large Agency such as DoD and pick up expertise in Enviromental, Civilian Personnel or Acquisition law. DoJ is another route if you are willing to go to D.C. 

Can you elaborate more on civilian personnel law? That is area I might be interested in.

[christina]

@saturn4147, is the mediator privately employed or a government employee? i was always fascinated by employment law in law school but ended up not going that route. obviously!!! maybe time to reexplore that old interest of mine.

Looking at some other options too. At some point, i think everyone hits their wall of writing decision after decision even with all the other benefits this job provides, telework being among the best. and a 14 or 15 helps me pack away more fers retirement too.

[Gaidin]

@lonelywriter in the past I think you indicated you didn't want to or couldn't move. I suspect no one gets GS15 without moving outside their familiar locale at least once. I guess maybe some born and bred DC insider does but that doesn't sound like the experience you have described in the past.

[ladywordsmith]

I was a GS15 for another government agency (HHS) and was working for ALJs. Simply put, I'd rather be an ALJ than work for them most of career. It was not about the cash; because of the change in location, for my first two years, I worked for less than what I was making as a 15 and I am in the old retirement system (which is great for either position).

Someone once asked me what 3 things I wanted in my next job (when I was a 15) and I said: 1) Never to have a non-attorney supervisor again; 2) to work with people I could trust and respect, and 3) to live as close to my job as possible. I have all those things as an ALJ and more.

LWS

[Deleted]

I'd move for some jobs, jobs with ladders or promotion potential built in. I wouldn't move to become a group supervisor though.

[christina]

Jan 1, 2017 16:45:33 GMT -5 @lonelywriter said:

I'd move for some jobs, jobs with ladders or promotion potential built in. I wouldn't move to become a group supervisor though.

Smart guy on that although if u have ur 7 years of qualifying legal experience, doing well as a gs can help with getting hired as alj

[Pixie]

Jan 1, 2017 16:55:18 GMT -5 christina said:

Jan 1, 2017 16:45:33 GMT -5 @lonelywriter said:

I'd move for some jobs, jobs with ladders or promotion potential built in. I wouldn't move to become a group supervisor though.

Smart guy on that although if u have ur 7 years of qualifying legal experience, doing well as a gs can help with getting hired as alj

Agreed. Supervisors get extra points from OPM, and are looked on favorably by the Agency. A GS or HOD with a good record as a supervisor, and who was productive as an attorney writer, stands an excellent chance of being picked up. It is a fast track to the position, assuming one's score is reachable. Pixie

[stevil]

I know OMHA is interested in supervisory experience because their ALJs are all supervisors too. It can never hurt you to demonstrate that not only can you be a technical expert in your field, but have the skills to lead other people in a joint endeavor. Also reason why military leadership is viewed favorably.

[luckylady2]

I hit 15 early in my career at another agency and then AD29 - all of it heavily ligitation, most of it run & gun with challenging issues. I was truly weary of discovery battles and responding to yet another side-tracking posturing letter or motion on the way to the challenging issues. Being an SSA ALJ is not much less stress, but for me, at this stage of my career, it is much better being a judge than a litigant. The ability to command more of my own schedule and balance work with the rest of my life were also big motivators - although the pressure to produce at SSA means that the work-life balance is still juggling competing demands and planning your life out 3-6 months in advance.

[bayou]

Jan 1, 2017 14:21:25 GMT -5 Gaidin said:

@lonelywriter in the past I think you indicated you didn't want to or couldn't move. I suspect no one gets GS15 without moving outside their familiar locale at least once. I guess maybe some born and bred DC insider does but that doesn't sound like the experience you have described in the past.

Yeah, it would be rare to get a GS15 job without climbing the ladder and due to the relative rarity of a 15 vs 14 and 13's, you usually can't just climb in place unless you get lucky and the 15 above you retires.  People at the 15 level usually aren't looking for a career change; they tend to stick until retirement.  Plus, most 15 announcements require that you have 1 or more years of qualifying experience at the 14 level.   

[bayou]

Lonely - I came to the Feds in the labor/employment attorney slot from a private sector litigation background. Much like Saturn, after doing that job for years, I moved into a job that is much less adversarial. The key is to get into the system in whatever gig you can, impress your bosses, and usually once you are a proven worker, they are receptive to you moving into other areas when they come open.

The labor/employment law is a good entry point for those in litigation because of the nearly 100% overlap in skills. Also, I know that some of DoD hire legal assistance attorneys and that just requires a knowledge of state law for whichever state you are located in. If you are really interested in moving to another agency, all I can say is sign up for USAJOBS alerts and throw darts at every acceptable target that crosses your screen.

[rp]

Jan 2, 2017 15:10:35 GMT -5 luckylady2 said:

I hit 15 early in my career at another agency and then AD29 - all of it heavily litigation, most of it run & gun with challenging issues. I was truly weary of discovery battles and responding to yet another side-tracking posturing letter or motion on the way to the challenging issues. Being an SSA ALJ is not much less stress, but for me, at this stage of my career, it is much better being a judge than a litigant. The ability to command more of my own schedule and balance work with the rest of my life were also big motivators - although the pressure to produce at SSA means that the work-life balance is still juggling competing demands and planning your life out 3-6 months in advance.

This is almost my exact situation -- without the ALJ job, of course.  Hope to be right there with you, LL2!

[sealaw90]

I second LL2's assessment, the ALJ gig IS better than than most GS-15 positions. The weariness of the bs of stupid litigation battles really isn't worth the 'big bucks' of a GS-15 position when compared to the 'big bucks' of the ALJ position combined with the freedom of scheduling your life, albeit a busy one, to suit your needs and agency demands.