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Post by SPN Lifer on Apr 17, 2019 14:28:31 GMT -5
Indeed, the recent Locations threads could profitably be combined into a single resource.
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Post by foghorn on Apr 17, 2019 21:02:24 GMT -5
Mount Pleasant Michigan lives! Thank goodness they saved a trope!
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Post by SPN Lifer on Apr 17, 2019 21:21:54 GMT -5
This post from one of the polling threads merely hints at the wealth of information available in that part of the forum. Top 10 (11) 38 votes: CHO 32 votes: CVG 31 votes (tie): IND 31 votes (tie): SDF 30 votes: PHX 29 votes (tie): BHM 29 votes (tie): LEX 26 votes: LGB 23 votes: DAY 22 votes (tie): MGM 22 votes (tie): PWM Bottom 10 (12) 12 votes: AEX 14 votes (tie): FSM 14 votes (tie): HRL 14 votes (tie): HTS 14 votes (tie): SHV 15 votes: FAT 16 votes (tie): PIB 16 votes (tie): JAN 16 votes (tie): RIV 16 votes (tie): ROC 16 votes (tie): SBD 16 votes (tie): TUL Tie votes arranged alphabetically by city. If you do not know the airport code for a particular city, it may not have been of much interest to you. There have been 741 votes by 207 voters as of 22:00, E.D.T., Mon., 15 April 2019. |
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Post by Gaidin on Apr 18, 2019 17:49:36 GMT -5
This post from one of the polling threads merely hints at the wealth of information available in that part of the forum. Top 10 (11) 38 votes: CHO 32 votes: CVG 31 votes (tie): IND 31 votes (tie): SDF 30 votes: PHX 29 votes (tie): BHM 29 votes (tie): LEX 26 votes: LGB 23 votes: DAY 22 votes (tie): MGM 22 votes (tie): PWM Bottom 10 (12) 12 votes: AEX 14 votes (tie): FSM 14 votes (tie): HRL 14 votes (tie): HTS 14 votes (tie): SHV 15 votes: FAT 16 votes (tie): PIB 16 votes (tie): JAN 16 votes (tie): RIV 16 votes (tie): ROC 16 votes (tie): SBD 16 votes (tie): TUL Tie votes arranged alphabetically by city. If you do not know the airport code for a particular city, it may not have been of much interest to you. There have been 741 votes by 207 voters as of 22:00, E.D.T., Mon., 15 April 2019. Fresno's airport code is never not funny. They tried to get the FAA to let them change it at one point because they thought it was damaging to the tourist industry. The FAA said "no". |
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Post by SPN Lifer on Apr 18, 2019 20:38:12 GMT -5
Good, old Fresno Air Terminal.
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Post by justlooking on Apr 24, 2019 9:10:02 GMT -5
Current SSA ALJ locations in latest job announcement: Birmingham, AL Montgomery, AL Fort Smith, AR Phoenix, AZ Fresno, CA Long Beach, CA Los Angeles, CA Moreno Valley, CA San Bernardino, CA Indianapolis, IN Lexington, KY Louisville, KY Alexandria, LA Metairie, LA New Orleans, LA Shreveport, LA Springfield, MA Portland, ME Mount Pleasant, MI Minneapolis, MN Springfield, MO Hattiesburg, MS Jackson, MS Rochester, NY Cincinnati, OH Dayton, OH Tulsa, OK Johnstown, PA Memphis, TN Harlingen, TX Salt Lake City, UT Charlottesville, VA Charleston, WV Huntington, WV Can we get some discussion going on these locations? I admittedly picked my top 5 for random reasons and would love some input and insight from those willing to share. |
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Post by uboat on Apr 24, 2019 9:36:27 GMT -5
Current SSA ALJ locations in latest job announcement: Birmingham, AL Montgomery, AL Fort Smith, AR Phoenix, AZ Fresno, CA Long Beach, CA Los Angeles, CA Moreno Valley, CA San Bernardino, CA Indianapolis, IN Lexington, KY Louisville, KY Alexandria, LA Metairie, LA New Orleans, LA Shreveport, LA Springfield, MA Portland, ME Mount Pleasant, MI Minneapolis, MN Springfield, MO Hattiesburg, MS Jackson, MS Rochester, NY Cincinnati, OH Dayton, OH Tulsa, OK Johnstown, PA Memphis, TN Harlingen, TX Salt Lake City, UT Charlottesville, VA Charleston, WV Huntington, WV Can we get some discussion going on these locations? I admittedly picked my top 5 for random reasons and would love some input and insight from those willing to share. I'll second that. |
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Apr 24, 2019 10:46:43 GMT -5
Well 2 of my locations were 3 hours or less driving time from home. (No options on this limited GAL would allow me to stay home which would have been pick # 1 for me.) This would allow me to transition slowly, if at all (i.e. I would commute on weekends if I am not a fan of the area - but if I find I like it - I could take my time with picking a permanent spot) to the new locations.
The remaining 3 - were locations that are drivable - but better for a short flight - 8 ish hours away... in cities with a good cost of living/ reputation as charming-livable. This new GAL only included 1-2 cities from my original pick so I had to go back to the drawing board in terms of thought process. At one point I debated applying all together. Finally I decided that yes I did want the job and these are the spots I would consider. Interestingly there were 2 spots I almost listed as they would have been in a driving zone - but that I finally said to myself - nope I don't think I can handle those locations for the 15 months (lets just say 2 plus years until transfer).
Folks may not want to put out there their actual picks - if you want to see where folks picked - take a look at the poll. Since HR folks and TPTB may be lurkers - it may not be a good idea to discuss your specific list - not before interview requests are sent and have taken place and selections made.
Anyway - what is done is done - it will be interesting to see how they handle our top 5 picks and weigh that with the pick of some saying they would take a spot outside the top 5 picks. I am sure this is a bit of test process for SSA as they develop their own hiring process.
Interesting days lie ahead folks! |
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Post by neufenland on Apr 24, 2019 11:13:58 GMT -5
I fully understand that it’s not all that likely for me to get one of these positions (the odds being what they are), but it’s certainly important to have a realistic idea of where one might end up should fortune favor us.
None of the locations are feasible for me without a move. I had thought about doing the “weekends home” thing, and there is one location that would still potentially allow for that, but I’m not sure how tenable that is. I really think a move is necessary for all these places.
My kid has special needs and I looked to places that are likely better for services for him. Cold weather doesn’t bother me.
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Post by justlooking on Apr 24, 2019 11:32:32 GMT -5
Folks may not want to put out there their actual picks - if you want to see where folks picked - take a look at the poll. Since HR folks and TPTB may be lurkers - it may not be a good idea to discuss your specific list - not before interview requests are sent and have taken place and selections made.
Anyway - what is done is done - it will be interesting to see how they handle our top 5 picks and weigh that with the pick of some saying they would take a spot outside the top 5 picks. I am sure this is a bit of test process for SSA as they develop their own hiring process.
Interesting days lie ahead folks! I agree that many, including myself, would not want to post their picks. I was just hoping for our usual locale discussions regarding cost of living, area culture, things to do, proximity to travel etc. We could even go down the list for anonymity. Let's get it rolling, shall we? First on list is Birmingham AL. Here is what the interwebs has to say. Information from bestplaces.net Feel free to add to this location or the next down the list, or whatever strikes your fancy  Best Places to Live in Birmingham, Alabama Mid-sized city - North-central Alabama, about 300 miles north of the Gulf of Mexico Pros -Arts and culture -Diversifying economy -Mild winters Cons -Air service -Crime rates -Summer heat and humidity What Bert Has To Say About Birmingham-Hoover Metro Area Birmingham is one of the South’s most misunderstood cities. A former steel and manufacturing center once known as the “Pittsburgh of the South,” Birmingham is still thought by many outsiders to combine the grittiness of this legacy with some of the other more unsavory images of the old South. But the truth is far different: Birmingham has experienced a major economic turnaround, and while not quite as far along as noted Southern stars like Charlotte, Raleigh Durham and Atlanta, the area has come a long way. The steel industry is still evident but has transitioned into higher value-add manufacturing enterprises supporting the South’s growing automotive assembly industry, which surrounds the city in a few-hundred-mile radius in places like Tuscaloosa (Mercedes) Lincoln, AL (Honda), Montgomery, AL (Hyundai), and Spring Hill and Smyrna, TN (Saturn and Nissan). Beyond this industry, the economy has moved decidedly towards more new-economy enterprises in research, medicine, banking, finance, and technology. The area has become a magnet for young educated workers and their families looking for alternatives to Atlanta and other booming Southern centers. Nice older (and some newer) suburban neighborhoods have grown mainly south of the city towards Vestavia Hills and Hoover. The area scores relatively well in healthcare, arts, and the economy, and poorly in air service and climate. Birmingham is located in a valley within a hilly area in the Appalachian foothills. Ridges rise to 600 feet above the valley floor, with a mix of open land and forest. The climate is decidedly southern, humid subtropical with a modifying influence from the Gulf of Mexico. Summers are long, hot, and humid with frequent thunderstorms. Winters are mild. Total annual rainfall is among the highest in the United States. Highlights ECONOMY The unemployment rate in Birmingham is 4.6% (U.S. avg. is 3.9%). Recent job growth is Positive. Birmingham jobs have increased by 2.03%. COST OF LIVING Compared to the rest of the country, Birmingham's cost of living is 20.90% lower than the U.S. average. VOTING Jefferson county voted Democratic in the last three Presidential elections, after voting Republican in 2000 and 2004. POPULATION Birmingham's population is 212,265 people. Since 2010, it has had a population decline of 1.91%. TRANSPORTATION Average Commute time is 22 minutes. The National Average is 26 minutes. REAL ESTATE The median home cost in Birmingham is $66,900. Home appreciation the last 10 years has been 11.09%. SCHOOLS Birmingham public schools spend $11,849 per student. The average school expenditure in the U.S. is $12,383. There are about 17.8 students per teacher in Birmingham. |
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Post by foghorn on Apr 24, 2019 13:24:24 GMT -5
I enjoy reading and discussing locations but let's be realistic--I'm not in the running for the SSALJ, but if I were I'd likely take most locations.
I quite understand that many are tied to an area or region due to spousal career, childrens needs etc.
However the degree of intense --and understandable--fretting about the process suggests that if people get an offer they will take it. To put it another way, only if presented with a choice do you choose between locations. The likely is a binary decision--take the offer or bag the process that has been your watchword for 2,4,6, or even more years.
Hopefully, everyone has involved their spouses at the earliest stage. At the beginning you may have had from your spouse a greater diffidence, as they may have thought you really had a lot of choices. However by now my spouse has internalized that I will, if very lucky, get an offer for one location. The only question then is am I waiting for or getting an offer from a different agency. But as they will not come at the same time that is not going to realistically happen.
The decision window when an offer is made will be very short. The discussions of where you want to be may be a mind block to making those quick yes/no responses you --an your significant other--will have to make, for it's not a question of where you want but whether you get an offer.
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Post by justlooking on Apr 24, 2019 16:08:05 GMT -5
I enjoy reading and discussing locations but let's be realistic--I'm not in the running for the SSALJ, but if I were I'd likely take most locations. I quite understand that many are tied to an area or region due to spousal career, childrens needs etc. However the degree of intense --and understandable--fretting about the process suggests that if people get an offer they will take it. To put it another way, only if presented with a choice do you choose between locations. The likely is a binary decision--take the offer or bag the process that has been your watchword for 2,4,6, or even more years. Hopefully, everyone has involved their spouses at the earliest stage. At the beginning you may have had from your spouse a greater diffidence, as they may have thought you really had a lot of choices. However by now my spouse has internalized that I will, if very lucky, get an offer for one location. The only question then is am I waiting for or getting an offer from a different agency. But as they will not come at the same time that is not going to realistically happen. The decision window when an offer is made will be very short. The discussions of where you want to be may be a mind block to making those quick yes/no responses you --an your significant other--will have to make, for it's not a question of where you want but whether you get an offer. Duly noted. However, this may not be the case for everyone. I would venture a guess that you are correct and most would accept any of the locations that they explicitly stated they would accept, whether that was 1 or 5. But also remember that some stated they would consider locations outside of their specifically chosen ones and would find this discussion useful. I will not show my hand and state which location(s) I outlined in my application or whether I stated I would consider any other cities, but think that many would appreciate this sort of discussion. In any case, I am hoping we can get some traction. I imagine those who are in your position might not find this particular thread helpful, but again, I believe some would for the reasons stated above. |
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Post by neufenland on Apr 24, 2019 16:16:10 GMT -5
I enjoy reading and discussing locations but let's be realistic--I'm not in the running for the SSALJ, but if I were I'd likely take most locations. I quite understand that many are tied to an area or region due to spousal career, childrens needs etc. However the degree of intense --and understandable--fretting about the process suggests that if people get an offer they will take it. To put it another way, only if presented with a choice do you choose between locations. The likely is a binary decision--take the offer or bag the process that has been your watchword for 2,4,6, or even more years. Hopefully, everyone has involved their spouses at the earliest stage. At the beginning you may have had from your spouse a greater diffidence, as they may have thought you really had a lot of choices. However by now my spouse has internalized that I will, if very lucky, get an offer for one location. The only question then is am I waiting for or getting an offer from a different agency. But as they will not come at the same time that is not going to realistically happen. The decision window when an offer is made will be very short. The discussions of where you want to be may be a mind block to making those quick yes/no responses you --an your significant other--will have to make, for it's not a question of where you want but whether you get an offer. Duly noted. However, this may not be the case for everyone. I would venture a guess that you are correct and most would accept any of the locations that they explicitly stated they would accept, whether that was 1 or 5. But also remember that some stated they would consider locations outside of their specifically chosen ones and would find this discussion useful. I will not show my hand and state which location(s) I outlined in my application or whether I stated I would consider any other cities, but think that many would appreciate this sort of discussion. In any case, I am hoping we can get some traction. I imagine those who are in your position might not find this particular thread helpful, but again, I believe some would for the reasons stated above. Plus, it’s kinda fun as a way to kill time while waiting to hear if an interview is in the cards. The idea of moving is still an abstract for us all at this point, so no harm, no foul. To be clear: I listed five locations and would take any one of them. |
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Post by foghorn on Apr 24, 2019 17:21:48 GMT -5
As I said, I enjoy discussing locations if for no other reason that until I have not only the offer but the job, I may run into one of those locations on a future application.
I just had a concern that a significant other hearing such ruminations could draw the conclusion that we really have agency over location, when we likely don't, and have dread second thoughts. When it's go time, it's show time!
That being said, check the earlier threads Livin' the ALJ Lifestyle and other threads on location that had tips.
What I find useful in sussing out a place is to determine what are air fares to and from---because for a while the significant other may be coming for visits etc; also for rental or housing costs I don't go by it's plus or minus national average but what are actual rental or purchase costs in neighborhoods you may want to be in (and that topic can be illuminating as well).
For instance, if you live in California you won't get sticker shock anywhere else, in fact may be pleasantly surprised to astounded. If you live in the spaces in between the large cities, there's a "OMG, you have to pay that for a minging 1 bedroom ....in a walkup.....with only on-street parking? So it was I found myself humming "Everything's up to date in Kansas City."
At the same time, you realize that there are a band of major cities where to work there you will have to pay maybe $15-20,000 in rent, non-deductible, for the price of having a job--but that's true of most places. You also realize even in Kansas City, you'll have to pay $10-12,000 per year so.........you pays your money and makes your choices.
Or you live out in the boonies and drive in. But then if you've ever considered working in DC or Newark, high rent and a commute are very likely in the cards unless you find a great deal that's a short bus hop or bike ride from your desired office.
So also look at the cheap entertainment--parks, recreation, availability and safety of; any activities that make life liveable and doable, on the premise that after the first year or two you hope to have free time. In a city like DC the location of that activity can make a difference--if it's a grinding hour drive across town each way to get to the activity (read: almost anyplace in the DC area), then maybe, if that's the only thing that floats your boat,a DC-traffic-like city is not to be. [However DC has so much going on, most people may have other things that make up for the goegraphic unavailability of their fave activity] (DC is, after all, the home of free public museums and zoo...well, free so far. Free folklife festival. More law libraries that you can shake a stick at {if that's your idea of a good time}; great places to walk and run {some safety considerations may intrude).
If you really want to drill, call people you may know or who are with specialty law associations you work with. You don't have to disclose why you might relocate, and most will be willing to give you the straight up. Think of prompts you can use " If you like ________________, you may not like [name of city]" or "the people that don't like [name of city] were expencting ________________________," the idea being they'll fill in the blanks, and that'll get them thinking of other relocation fails in their ville---or maybe why they wish they could leave.
For many the fails are misfit issues--the city or area just has a certain outlook that is so pervaisive that if you dont share that outlook you'll always feel like a fish out of water, a softer version of areas that have significant race issues or identity issues compared with others. Finding that out requires looking hard, though in the case of race or identity talking to people of those groups will clue you in to how it is.
If it's important to you/your significant other that people have an open, welcome stranger genuine friendliness, then ask about it--if it's an area where you have to live there 40 years or be born there before people nod to you --let alone say "hi"--then that's something to know and to contemplate.
Another drill down is to look at the local newspapers online--you'll get an idea of what the city has going on, etc.
As with the crack epidemic following the hollowing out of manufacturing, for some communities the Opiod epidemic has hollowed out towns or amped the crime rate. For instance I was discussing with a board member a town in West Virginia , and they said that they would move if they could because even going to work they had a continual deposit of fresh signs of drug use at their parking garage every morning. That's useful intel of a type that you won't find reading US News top places to retire/move to etc.
Availability of places to worship can be an issue for many. In that case best to maybe visit--so you can see the congregations. If organized religion is a big piece of your life but you don't like the congregations of your faith or denomination, issues like those you will rarely be able to determine without a personal, on the ground visit.
Most if not all the above are more shades of grey than something as determinative as the black or white of "we have kids and I can't see my kids going to any of the schools in ________________"
For some they have to have winter. For others they don't want any part of winter. For most it's one of many potential trade off's they'd deal with for having the job even if it's not their perfect weather town or even has what for them is bad weather. Many people don't like rain but move to and stay in Seattle.
What's useful for me in these discussions and reading them is figuring out what's important for me and my significant other.
finally, for certain locations the above calculus can be affected by the ability to transfer out after a year or three--for some locations are such that the agency knows they are unlikely to get the staff they want that will stay, so they are flexible after the first few years of service and allow transfers. If that's the case, armpit USA may be doable to get your foot in the door. What you want to avoid is the feeling "You have been sentenced to the penal colony of _______________ from which there is no escape!"
Capping it all off --and for which I'd trade off nearly all of the above-- is what's the tone of the office. Granted, that can change, but if the place you are going to work is a nightmare, then chances are no matter how well the surrounding ville fits you like a glove, that's not the place you want to choose.
Being of a certain age, and having worked for some --shall we say strong personality types--gives me a fairly high pain tolerance; but I still like to avoid pain, if I can.
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Post by Pixie on Apr 28, 2019 8:15:32 GMT -5
The below chart and post were made by JudgeKnot in the OMHA thread. I thought it also related to "Location Research," So I have copied it to this thread. I had to realign the columns so I hope they stay realigned with I post. Edit Note: Nope they jammed together. I have one more trick to try. Irvine 211.2 $ 82,623.11 Seattle 204.0 $ 85,539.22 Arlington 192.3 $ 90,743.63 Denver 144.2 $121,012.48 Miami 137.1 $127,279.36 Atlanta 115.4 $151,213.17 Phoenix 113.4 $153,880.07 New Orleans 107.5 $162,325.58 US Average 100.0 $174,500.00 Albuquerque 98.3 $177,517.80 Kansas City 91.9 $189,880.30 Cleveland 77.1 $226,329.44 Maybe this could go under the location research thread, but since the details relate specifically to the OMHA cities I'll put it here. I was looking at the cost of living for the cities where OMHA is trying to fill vacancies. It's a real eye opener when you compare the cities. This data comes from www.bestplaces.net/The average cost of living is at an index of 100. The max salary currently for an SALJ is $174,500. The list of cities is ranked in order of their respective COLI. I also calculated your relative purchasing power, with the baseline at $174,500, and what you could do with that in each city. Putting it another way, your salary would only go about 1/2 as far in Irvine, Seattle, and Arlington, compared to Anytown, USA. Your salary would go more than twice as far in Cleveland than in Irvine, Seattle, or Arlington. Lots to think about. |
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Post by foghorn on Apr 30, 2019 18:07:04 GMT -5
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Apr 30, 2019 18:21:15 GMT -5
foghorn
So this is list of average cost by household bills - reading the article it looks like they were looking at everything but household costs...? so when you also factor in that - that would lead to a more accurate reading on actual cost of living in areas.
Let's face it - most who are looking at this type of a job move do so looking at many factors - not just economics. Equally important are the intangibles….
how close are you to family and friends if raising kids - are there good schools city vs small town - and everything in between culture/activities access to good quality medical care access to airports
this is just a partial list - as intangible vary for each person and will change even for that person depending on stage of life.
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Post by foghorn on Apr 30, 2019 18:31:06 GMT -5
foghorn
So this is list of average cost by household bills - reading the article it looks like they were looking at everything but household costs...? so when you also factor in that - that would lead to a more accurate reading on actual cost of living in areas.
Let's face it - most who are looking at this type of a job move do so looking at many factors - not just economics. Equally important are the intangibles….
how close are you to family and friends if raising kids - are there good schools city vs small town - and everything in between culture/activities access to good quality medical care access to airports
this is just a partial list - as intangible vary for each person and will change even for that person depending on stage of life.
(consider that IJ courts have no problems filling IJ seats at detained courts in Jenna La and Otero N.Mex, and other garden spots that aren't cheap to fly into/out of). |
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Post by bayou on Apr 30, 2019 20:01:10 GMT -5
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Post by Pixie on Apr 30, 2019 20:43:40 GMT -5
Not even gonna look at it. We have some friends on Florida's west coast who wanted us to come down and spend a day or two before we went on to the Islands. I thought that would be nice and we were discussing it. I then realized what I was doing and immediately found a reason to beg off. No more Florida for me. Too many dangers lurketh, and in my past life I have used up 8 of my 9 lives. I am lucky to even have one left. Don't want to waste it in that horrid Florida. Pixie |
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