|
|
Post by christina on Jul 10, 2018 12:19:11 GMT -5
I am pretty sure this is just a proposal since it can't be located on the official website. I also agree with roggenbier that it will be challenged and possibly struck down if it's actually signed by the President. Awesome, nothing like a few years of litigation to speed up the ALJ hiring process. pretty close to my thoughts |
|
|
|
Post by roggenbier on Jul 10, 2018 12:28:09 GMT -5
Don’t think is a prank or fake news from the text and tone of the EO.
|
|
|
|
Post by roggenbier on Jul 10, 2018 12:29:01 GMT -5
I am pretty sure this is just a proposal since it can't be located on the official website. I also agree with roggenbier that it will be challenged and possibly struck down if it's actually signed by the President. Awesome, nothing like a few years of litigation to speed up the ALJ hiring process. AT LEAST, THIS TIME, I AM ON THE INSIDE, NOT SOMEONE WHO JUST GOT HIS RATING THE WEEK BEFORE AZDELL HAPPENED. |
|
|
|
Post by Burt Macklin on Jul 10, 2018 12:34:51 GMT -5
If we pretend this is the Real Deal Holyfield:
1. There is the grandfather clause that keeps current judges in the warm embrace of competitive service - does that mean the MSPB and other protections would be in place for the current ALJs?
2. Would sitting ALJs be Inferior Officers while remaining in the competitive service?
3. What on Earth does "each agency shall follow the principle of veteran preference as far as administratively feasible" actually mean? Having played that excepted service game previously, vet pref does not rate a bucket of spit when it comes to hiring under the excepted service.
|
|
|
|
Post by Burt Macklin on Jul 10, 2018 12:38:46 GMT -5
Also, this sadly was the first thing that came to mind when envisioning someone creating a fake EO to mess with a very limited subset of the legal profession:
link
Would steal thirty bagged lunches / create a fake EO?!? |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 12:40:23 GMT -5
44 USC Ch. 15: FEDERAL REGISTER AND CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS §1505. Documents to be published in Federal Register (a) Proclamations and Executive Orders; Documents Having General Applicability and Legal Effect; Documents Required To Be Published by Congress. There shall be published in the Federal Register— (1) Presidential proclamations and Executive orders, except those not having general applicability and legal effect or effective only against Federal agencies or persons in their capacity as officers, agents, or employees thereof; (2) documents or classes of documents that the President may determine from time to time have general applicability and legal effect; and (3) documents or classes of documents that may be required so to be published by Act of Congress.... §1503. Filing documents with Office; notation of time; public inspection; transmission for printing The original and two duplicate originals or certified copies of a document required or authorized to be published by section 1505 of this title shall be filed with the Office of the Federal Register, which shall be open for that purpose during all hours of the working days when the National Archives Building is open for official business. The Archivist of the United States shall cause to be noted on the original and duplicate originals or certified copies of each document the day and hour of filing. When the original is issued, prescribed, or promulgated outside the District of Columbia, and certified copies are filed before the filing of the original, the notation shall be of the day and hour of filing of the certified copies. Upon filing, at least one copy shall be immediately available for public inspection in the Office.... uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter15&edition=prelim |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjiggles on Jul 10, 2018 12:42:35 GMT -5
I don't see how you could have some ALJs be in the competitive service and others in the excepted service at the same time with the same statutory duties. That will cause litigants who lose before excepted service ALJs to complain (and win) because they had their cases randomly assigned to ALJs with lesser protections against agency pressure with no rational basis. If they change to excepted service, it's going to have to be all or none. Agree. Since this appears to be a draft, maybe they will tweak that (not sure how). I suppose claimants/litigants could sign waivers to appear before one or the other. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjiggles on Jul 10, 2018 12:44:55 GMT -5
44 USC Ch. 15: FEDERAL REGISTER AND CODE OF FEDERAL REGULATIONS §1505. Documents to be published in Federal Register (a) Proclamations and Executive Orders; Documents Having General Applicability and Legal Effect; Documents Required To Be Published by Congress. There shall be published in the Federal Register— (1) Presidential proclamations and Executive orders, except those not having general applicability and legal effect or effective only against Federal agencies or persons in their capacity as officers, agents, or employees thereof; (2) documents or classes of documents that the President may determine from time to time have general applicability and legal effect; and (3) documents or classes of documents that may be required so to be published by Act of Congress. uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?path=/prelim@title44/chapter15&edition=prelim Am I correct in reading 1505a1 to say that an EO does not have to be published in the fed register if it only applies to (as applicable here) inferior officers? |
|
emby
Full Member
Posts: 60 
|
Post by emby on Jul 10, 2018 12:48:02 GMT -5
I am truly sorry to have caused any alarm folks. When I received this information, It caused some concern because I am waiting for my NOR from this last round of testing. If this was actually a thing, I wanted to find out from those who may be in the loop on this "proposal."
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 12:48:09 GMT -5
No. “The APA provides that due process and public participation requirements must be met in the promulgation of a new regulation as published in the Federal Register.” –Must take public comments and respond in final rule –Regulations cannot be enforced if not published in the Federal Register –Regulations cannot be effective until 30 days after publication –Must publish statements of the organization and procedure for whom to contact for comment in the agency –Must state the legal basis and purpose of the regulation lscontent.westlaw.com/research/ppts/Administrative%20Law%20Complete%20Show.ppt |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjiggles on Jul 10, 2018 12:55:39 GMT -5
No. “The APA provides that due process and public participation requirements must be met in the promulgation of a new regulation as published in the Federal Register.” –Must take public comments and respond in final rule –Regulations cannot be enforced if not published in the Federal Register –Regulations cannot be effective until 30 days after publication –Must publish statements of the organization and procedure for whom to contact for comment in the agency –Must state the legal basis and purpose of the regulation lscontent.westlaw.com/research/ppts/Administrative%20Law%20Complete%20Show.pptOh I get that. I’m saying is it possible that the EO need not be published. Obviously the reg changes that the EO calls for has to follow the notice/comment/publishing requirements of the APA, but I’m wondering whether the underlying EO need not be published in the fed register. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjiggles on Jul 10, 2018 12:57:40 GMT -5
I am truly sorry to have caused any alarm folks. When I received this information, It caused some concern because I am waiting for my NOR from this last round of testing. If this was actually a thing, I wanted to find out from those who may be in the loop on this "proposal." You’ve merely enlivened things around here. I’m in the same boat as you. Don’t blame you for not giving up your source on a public forum. |
|
|
|
Post by aa7 on Jul 10, 2018 12:57:59 GMT -5
This would have been so wonderful for April 1!
|
|
|
|
Post by uboat on Jul 10, 2018 12:58:17 GMT -5
For my money this is a genuine PROPOSED new EO, not an elaborate hoax.
|
|
|
|
Post by ssa on Jul 10, 2018 12:58:26 GMT -5
I can't reveal that information. Sorry. Then this falls under the category of reckless rumor. It may as well have been posted by The Onion. I disagree. I don’t think it was reckless of emby to post. I for one appreciate knowing the possible direction things will or could take. Just like earlier posts where people shared intel on SSA’s hiring plans, I don’t think it’s helpful to criticize the source of intel. I choose to be grateful for what little info we can get when possible. And if nothing else, it keeps things interesting around here while we’re all waiting for NORs or the next cert. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjiggles on Jul 10, 2018 13:00:05 GMT -5
If we pretend this is the Real Deal Holyfield: 1. There is the grandfather clause that keeps current judges in the warm embrace of competitive service - does that mean the MSPB and other protections would be in place for the current ALJs? 2. Would sitting ALJs be Inferior Officers while remaining in the competitive service? 3. What on Earth does "each agency shall follow the principle of veteran preference as far as administratively feasible" actually mean? Having played that excepted service game previously, vet pref does not rate a bucket of spit when it comes to hiring under the excepted service. The way I read it is: 1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. It’s lip service to vet preference |
|
|
|
Post by roggenbier on Jul 10, 2018 13:02:13 GMT -5
If we pretend this is the Real Deal Holyfield: 1. There is the grandfather clause that keeps current judges in the warm embrace of competitive service - does that mean the MSPB and other protections would be in place for the current ALJs? 2. Would sitting ALJs be Inferior Officers while remaining in the competitive service? 3. What on Earth does "each agency shall follow the principle of veteran preference as far as administratively feasible" actually mean? Having played that excepted service game previously, vet pref does not rate a bucket of spit when it comes to hiring under the excepted service. The way I read it is: 1. Yes, 2. Yes, 3. It’s lip service to vet preference I think this is an innovative response to the Lucia ruling. I have no doubt it is being thought of, if not already issued. |
|
|
|
Post by jimmyjiggles on Jul 10, 2018 13:03:16 GMT -5
Then this falls under the category of reckless rumor. It may as well have been posted by The Onion. I disagree. I don’t think it was reckless of emby to post. I for one appreciate knowing the possible direction things will or could take. Just like earlier posts where people shared intel on SSA’s hiring plans, I don’t think it’s helpful to criticize the source of intel. I choose to be grateful for what little info we can get when possible. And if nothing else, it keeps things interesting around here while we’re all waiting for NORs or the next cert. Agree. When we’re in the hiring doldrums even rumor is newsworthy to me. Hell it could have been in the Onion and sparked as much interest and commentary. |
|
emby
Full Member
Posts: 60
|
Post by emby on Jul 10, 2018 13:05:18 GMT -5
This would have been so wonderful for April 1! I did a quick check of my calendar to make sure it wasn't April 1.  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2018 13:05:42 GMT -5
Folks take this seriously. Changes are in the offing. Ask the union who can no longer send emails on govt computer, use Govt time to prosecute grievances and whose dues collection for associate members was unilaterally stopped by Age cy. I look forward to 1) retirement and 2) diff administration. In that order
|
|
