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Post by nylawyer on Jul 28, 2021 13:21:04 GMT -5
It's terrible policy IMHO, but above my pay grade.
You are trying to persuade people who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Now you tell them, oh by the way, you still have to wear a mask anyway even if you do get the shot. Think that makes them more or less likely?
I'm also a little disturbed by the (probably baseless paranoid) suspicion that maybe the purpose of the mask mandate is to anger the vaccinated against the unvaccinated so that the government can get away with much more authoritarian means of getting everyone vaccinated.
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Post by hopefalj on Jul 28, 2021 13:37:15 GMT -5
It's terrible policy IMHO, but above my pay grade. You are trying to persuade people who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Now you tell them, oh by the way, you still have to wear a mask anyway even if you do get the shot. Think that makes them more or less likely? It will not make the unvaccinated more or less likely to get a vaccine. Anyone that hasn’t gotten one to this point isn’t going to get vaccinated unless they or a close family member becomes severely ill with the virus. People are dug in on the issue. I doubt very seriously there are a whole lot of fence sitters anymore. |
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Post by nylawyer on Jul 28, 2021 16:17:40 GMT -5
It's terrible policy IMHO, but above my pay grade. You are trying to persuade people who are reluctant to get the vaccine. Now you tell them, oh by the way, you still have to wear a mask anyway even if you do get the shot. Think that makes them more or less likely? It will not make the unvaccinated more or less likely to get a vaccine. Anyone that hasn’t gotten one to this point isn’t going to get vaccinated unless they or a close family member becomes severely ill with the virus. People are dug in on the issue. I doubt very seriously there are a whole lot of fence sitters anymore. While I understand your thinking, it is demonstrably untrue. Consider- www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/health/covid-vaccine-states-distribution-doses/Last week, on average 608k people per day were vaccinated. Every one of them could have been vaccinated long before now (ok, not all, some may have aged into eligibility-but most). Can I explain why so many people are waiting until now to get vaccinated? Not really. Undoubtedly, the Delta variant has some role, but I would question exactly how much. And there are undoubtedly people who just are never going to get vaccinated. A discouragingly high number. But there are plenty of unvaccinated people who are persuadable. |
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Post by rightspeech on Jul 28, 2021 18:53:16 GMT -5
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Post by rp on Jul 28, 2021 20:46:59 GMT -5
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Post by rightspeech on Jul 28, 2021 20:55:18 GMT -5
Guy admitted he was wrong really hope he pulls through.
The algorithms have been pushing that story so hard on the politically engaged. It's so weird, there's like this subtle suggestion that liberals hope he dies or something it's toxic AF
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Post by rp on Jul 28, 2021 20:57:51 GMT -5
Guy admitted he was wrong really hope he pulls through. The algorithms have been pushing that story so hard on the politically engaged. It's so weird, there's like this subtle suggestion that liberals hope he dies or something it's toxic AF I hope he does too. Let’s hope it’s not too late. |
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Post by superalj on Jul 28, 2021 21:33:49 GMT -5
History repeats itself. Our America is in great decline and the majority of our citizens are too ignorant and weak to stop it. At least we were alive to see the good days... The current U.S. Government is the new King George III... ...and a new slavery bestowed upon us all. OK Boomer  __________________________ Excuse me while I go fire up the ole scanner/copier/laminator and begin selling fake vaccine cards on Etsy. I hope the original poster was being sarcastic because the “good old days” is code for some really bad old days for many Americans. Comparing vaccine mandates to slavery is really offensive. |
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Post by nylawyer on Jul 28, 2021 21:47:09 GMT -5
History repeats itself. Our America is in great decline and the majority of our citizens are too ignorant and weak to stop it. At least we were alive to see the good days... The current U.S. Government is the new King George III... ...and a new slavery bestowed upon us all. The first three words you wrote are indisputable. The next six? I genuinely fear that I may agree- but hope we are both wrong. You are on the your own for the rest. I'm not even sure I truly understand the analogies involved. |
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Post by roymcavoy on Jul 28, 2021 22:11:42 GMT -5
History repeats itself. Our America is in great decline and the majority of our citizens are too ignorant and weak to stop it. At least we were alive to see the good days... The current U.S. Government is the new King George III... ...and a new slavery bestowed upon us all. The first three words you wrote are indisputable. The next six? I genuinely fear that I may agree- but hope we are both wrong. You are on the your own for the rest. I'm not even sure I truly understand the analogies involved. I think we should all take comfort that the last several generations of Americans since the 1950s have looked at the situation before them and said, “this is the end of American society.” |
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Post by TigerLaw on Jul 28, 2021 22:42:57 GMT -5
History repeats itself. Our America is in great decline and the majority of our citizens are too ignorant and weak to stop it. At least we were alive to see the good days... The current U.S. Government is the new King George III... ...and a new slavery bestowed upon us all. "The current U.S. Government is the new King George III" Please, tell us more! "The current U.S. Government is the new King George III" is the reason we will suffer further with a sluggish economy and a delay to the normal order of business that existed before Covid! Nobody thinks about polio, tetanus, the annual flu, hepatitis A & B, rubella, Hib meningitis, measles, whooping cough, mumps, chickenpox, diphtheria, or tuberculosis vaccines and I know everyone on here clearly understands the great medical advances provided by vaccines, but yet here we are in 2021 with well educated folks talking about slavery for taking a simple shot that can keep them alive!  Nobody thinks twice about wearing their seatbelts, having insurance on your car, needing a license to drive a car or fly a plane, or all of the numerous other things we are required to do in order to be a productive member of a society, but here we are with only the unvaccinated dying and taking up ICU beds because they refuse to do their part, so sad. But, I take some solace in the fact that 97% plus that are dying are the "citizens" that stood up to tyranny and slavery and refused to save their own life. Darwin's theory in action! Tiger |
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Post by jagvet on Aug 1, 2021 18:14:55 GMT -5
I take no solace that unvaccinated people are dying. This administration has totally failed to convince those who are convincible to get vaccinated. The number who are philosophically opposed is rather small. Carrot Top had a great comment (saw him last week): "Why do we think someone cramming Big Macs in his pie hole is worried about putting something unknown into his body?"
Promising no masks for the vaccinated and welching on that won't help.
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Post by mercury on Aug 1, 2021 18:27:32 GMT -5
I take no solace that unvaccinated people are dying. This administration has totally failed to convince those who are convincible to get vaccinated. The number who are philosophically opposed is rather small. Carrot Top had a great comment (saw him last week): "Why do we think someone cramming Big Macs in his pie hole is worried about putting something unknown into his body?" Promising no masks for the vaccinated and welching on that won't help. Interesting that you blame that on the current administration, when the last one was the only one who refused to be vaccinated publicly or participate in a PSA encouraging vaccination. Also, I think the data disagree with your second premise that most who remain unvaccinated are convincible. www.cbs17.com/community/health/coronavirus/most-americans-who-arent-planning-to-get-vaccinated-are-unlikely-to-change-their-mind-poll-finds/In any case, to return this thread to topic, I was a little disappointed in the Unions’ (please note use of apostrophe) responses, and I say that as a Union guy myself. |
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Post by Pixie on Aug 1, 2021 21:47:43 GMT -5
In any case, to return this thread to topic, I was a little disappointed in the Unions’ (please note use of apostrophe) responses, and I say that as a Union guy myself. If you are referring to more than one union, you are on the money. If only one, not so much. Pixie |
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Post by jagvet on Aug 1, 2021 22:53:13 GMT -5
FPTE (fed engineers) agrees with mandatory masking and vaccine-or-testing, AFT and AFGE says the subject is a change in working conditions which must be negotiated. Postal Workers and Fed Law Enforcement Officers' Assn are totally opposed. Bottom line is chaos. Why weren't the unions consulted? You can blame the last administration all you like, but this administration is now in charged with dealing with it. Biden said uncategorically in May, "Now, I want to be clear about what the CD- — CDC is saying and what the CDC is not saying. The CDC is saying they have concluded that fully vaccinated people are at a very, very low risk of getting COVID-19. Therefore, if you’ve been fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask. Let me repeat: If you are fully vaccinated, you no longer need to wear a mask."
Source: www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/speeches-remarks/2021/05/13/remarks-by-president-biden-on-the-covid-19-response-and-the-vaccination-program-3/ |
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Post by workdrone on Aug 1, 2021 22:55:32 GMT -5
Since I am an attorney and love the rule of law.... consider this: Link to America's Frontline Doctor's false information site removedFor the doctors portion: Link to false information site removed (start at 1 hr 10 mins to get past introductions, and to where substantive information begins). p.s., I never advocated that people should not get vaccinated; but the Government should follow the rule of law and not violate it's citizens' human rights. That is all. Please don't cite to "America's Frontline Doctors". That's group known for its false and misleading claims about COVID-19. Moreover, its founder participated in the January 6 attack on the Capitol and she is now facing charges. See: www.politifact.com/factchecks/2021/jul/22/instagram-posts/no-evidence-45000-deaths-covid-19-vaccines/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America%27s_Frontline_DoctorsLet's stick to the facts instead of conspiracy theories. |
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Post by jagvet on Aug 1, 2021 23:00:33 GMT -5
I agree with workdrone on disregarding these phony claims, but I don't believe CDC anymore either. I don't know what the "science" is. I have been fully vaccinated since the earliest date possible. For me that was February. |
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Post by mercury on Aug 2, 2021 0:14:07 GMT -5
In any case, to return this thread to topic, I was a little disappointed in the Unions’ (please note use of apostrophe) responses, and I say that as a Union guy myself. If you are referring to more than one union, you are on the money. If only one, not so much. Pixie I am indeed intentionally using the plural; thank you. |
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Post by aljwishhope on Aug 2, 2021 6:54:51 GMT -5
A little black letter law Jacobson v Massachusetts 197 US 11 (1905) well established that the liberty secured by the Constitution does not import an absolute right in each person to be at all times, and in all circumstances, wholly freed from restraint, nor is it an element in such liberty that one person, or a minority of persons residing in any community and enjoying the benefits of its local government should have power to dominate the majority when supported in their action by the authority of the State (in support of the states compelling interest in enforcing vaccination in light of a highly communicable disease)
Just saying
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Post by johnthornton on Aug 2, 2021 7:06:37 GMT -5
My questions about the testing option: Why type of test? Who pays for the test? Where is the test administered? Are you on the clock or off the clock when tested? How many tests per week are required?
I also saw some reference to the unvaccinated needing to wear a mask regardless of where they are working. So, they have to wear a mask at home?
I wish that they would consider those who have actually recovered from covid to be equivalent to those who are vaccinated.
As I understand the current guidance, if you have recovered from covid, you should not get vaccinated for several months. So, assume a federal employee sick with covid today. Not eligible for the vaccine until November, but required to test twice a week (off the clock? At his/her own expense? wearing masks at home) until vaccination is allowed.
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