gavel
Full Member
Posts: 62 
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Post by gavel on Aug 18, 2021 13:47:02 GMT -5
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Post by ssaogc on Aug 18, 2021 14:31:59 GMT -5
I would love to become a VA Judge but not moving to DC area. Make same salary in a lower cost of living location in USA
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Post by jagvet on Aug 18, 2021 15:08:07 GMT -5
I would love to become a VA Judge but not moving to DC area. Make same salary in a lower cost of living location in USA Same here. I wonder if they will allow telework full-time? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. |
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Post by intothewild on Aug 18, 2021 18:55:33 GMT -5
I would love to become a VA Judge but not moving to DC area. Make same salary in a lower cost of living location in USA Same here. I wonder if they will allow telework full-time? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Sadly that most likely won’t happen for VLJ position. Although BVA attorneys can now work remotely after “X” years. If you don’t currently work for VA it is almost darn near impossible to get a VLJ position as well. Almost all of the jobs go to known insiders. |
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Post by carrickfergus on Aug 19, 2021 9:00:43 GMT -5
At least one of the 20 judges appointed to the BVA was an SSA ALJ immediately before. Unsure if they had previous VA experience.
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Post by neufenland on Aug 19, 2021 9:11:26 GMT -5
Same here. I wonder if they will allow telework full-time? Hmmmmmmmmmmm. Sadly that most likely won’t happen for VLJ position. Although BVA attorneys can now work remotely after “X” years. If you don’t currently work for VA it is almost darn near impossible to get a VLJ position as well. Almost all of the jobs go to known insiders. I worked at BVA for 11 years, trained new attorneys, did Acting VLJ, supported VLJs on "Travel Board" to different Regional Offices, trained Regional Office staff on legal developments at CAVC, etc. Always exceeded my goal and had good relationships with my judges (still do). I left in 2018 on good terms. Oh, and I'm also a veteran. Didn't even get an interview. Didn't even get a FOAD email. They like who they like. This is likely the future for SSA hiring, too, so that saddens me. I'm in the best attorney job I've ever had right now, so I can't be too upset. I even get to do hearing officer assignments where I am currently (even though we don't have a ton of those cases). VLJ is a great job and I'd still love to do it. I loved the law and helping veterans while a BVA attorney, but being an attorney there can be a real meat-grinder. I'm sure SSA counsel have similar feelings. |
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Post by garlow on Aug 19, 2021 16:37:29 GMT -5
Sadly that most likely won’t happen for VLJ position. Although BVA attorneys can now work remotely after “X” years. If you don’t currently work for VA it is almost darn near impossible to get a VLJ position as well. Almost all of the jobs go to known insiders. I worked at BVA for 11 years, trained new attorneys, did Acting VLJ, supported VLJs on "Travel Board" to different Regional Offices, trained Regional Office staff on legal developments at CAVC, etc. Always exceeded my goal and had good relationships with my judges (still do). I left in 2018 on good terms. Oh, and I'm also a veteran. Didn't even get an interview. Didn't even get a FOAD email. They like who they like. This is likely the future for SSA hiring, too, so that saddens me. I'm in the best attorney job I've ever had right now, so I can't be too upset. I even get to do hearing officer assignments where I am currently (even though we don't have a ton of those cases). VLJ is a great job and I'd still love to do it. I loved the law and helping veterans while a BVA attorney, but being an attorney there can be a real meat-grinder. I'm sure SSA counsel have similar feelings. May I ask what that job is, why it's great and how you got it? can PM if prefer. I agree it is odd and frustrating how on paper you can be perfectly qualified for a job, but they end up not even interviewing you. Just got FOAD from a job i thought I was over qualified for, literally the day after I applied. I think each interviewer/reviewer has their own set of criteria that they value, and some managers have a preference for federal clerks, or for ivy league schools, or some other variable that you can't satisfy. So it really is a numbers game. |
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Post by neufenland on Aug 19, 2021 17:27:16 GMT -5
I worked at BVA for 11 years, trained new attorneys, did Acting VLJ, supported VLJs on "Travel Board" to different Regional Offices, trained Regional Office staff on legal developments at CAVC, etc. Always exceeded my goal and had good relationships with my judges (still do). I left in 2018 on good terms. Oh, and I'm also a veteran. Didn't even get an interview. Didn't even get a FOAD email. They like who they like. This is likely the future for SSA hiring, too, so that saddens me. I'm in the best attorney job I've ever had right now, so I can't be too upset. I even get to do hearing officer assignments where I am currently (even though we don't have a ton of those cases). VLJ is a great job and I'd still love to do it. I loved the law and helping veterans while a BVA attorney, but being an attorney there can be a real meat-grinder. I'm sure SSA counsel have similar feelings. May I ask what that job is, why it's great and how you got it? can PM if prefer. I agree it is odd and frustrating how on paper you can be perfectly qualified for a job, but they end up not even interviewing you. Just got FOAD from a job i thought I was over qualified for, literally the day after I applied. I think each interviewer/reviewer has their own set of criteria that they value, and some managers have a preference for federal clerks, or for ivy league schools, or some other variable that you can't satisfy. So it really is a numbers game. Sent a PM. |
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Post by aljhopefully on Aug 19, 2021 19:39:47 GMT -5
As a former BVA attorney I second neufenland’s post. The attorney position is quite the grind, but the VLJs I worked for seemed quite happy. I also left BVA and do not regret it, but as time goes on I have to say I wouldn’t mind being a VLJ.
Not sure if I want to live in the DMV again, though!
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Post by Pixie on Aug 23, 2021 11:24:11 GMT -5
From a board member:
Good morning, Pixie--
Can you please post anonymously that the VA hired multiple Veterans Law Judges who are not VA insiders. Also, many of the Judges will be working remotely across the country without any waiting period in DC. Thank you.
PS--I was hired and have no background in this area of the law though I do have judicial experience. Thank you!
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Post by hapi2balj on Aug 23, 2021 16:27:47 GMT -5
I am signed up for USA Jobs alerts with keyword "judge" and get weekly e-mails, usually with nada. Didn't know about these. What's the pay scale? What are the job protections? How independent are these jobs? I'm an SSA ALJ & have other judicial experience, and years ago I was a regional VA attorney.
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Post by neufenland on Aug 23, 2021 17:20:55 GMT -5
I am signed up for USA Jobs alerts with keyword "judge" and get weekly e-mails, usually with nada. Didn't know about these. What's the pay scale? What are the job protections? How independent are these jobs? I'm an SSA ALJ & have other judicial experience, and years ago I was a regional VA attorney. My understanding is same pay scale as ALJ, but not all of the same protections. You get an annual eval, for instance. Production drives BVA in a manner similar to SSA (I don't have SSA experience, so that's just from my reading of posts on here). As far as judicial independence, no one is going to tell you how to rule on a case. The Court of Appeals for Veterans Claims is the next step after BVA, and they could remand it back to you, though. There is-or was when I was there-a Quality Review section that randomly pulls VLJ decisions and evaluates them. It is possible to get an "exception" from QR (meaning they found something "wrong" with your decision-and I put that in quotes because that can be a judgment call), but you as the VLJ don't have to change the disposition just because QR noted it (I mean, you can if you want). You'll have a staff of about 6-7 attorneys who write just for you (or maybe you and one other VLJ). I left in early 2018, which was obviously pre-CoViD, so I have no idea about the full-time remote telework option for VLJs. That had only been added within a year or so before I left for staff attorneys, and it wasn't available for VLJs when I changed jobs. I guess it is now. Used to require a move to the DC area to work at BVA, but it looks like that isn't necessarily the case now. |
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Post by fingerscrossed on Aug 23, 2021 17:58:43 GMT -5
Pursuant to 31 USC 7101A - BVA Judges also called members receive performance evaluations at least once every three years and then have the same protections as ALJs pursuant to 31 USC 7101A (e)(2).
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Post by aljhopefully on Aug 26, 2021 12:22:30 GMT -5
VLJs have some of the same MSPB protections as ALJs, but the constitutionality of those protections is in doubt. Unlike ALJs, however, VLJs are subject to a recertification board, and I imagine productivity (number of cases decided) plays an enormous role in that.
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Post by fingerscrossed on Aug 26, 2021 13:01:17 GMT -5
The Supreme Court recently in the Arthrex case addressed the VLJs. It was argued that because they make final decisions that are not reviewable by the agency and instead must be appealed directly to the U.S.Court of Appeals for Veteran's Claims that they were principal officers. The Court said because the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veteran's Claims is an Article I vs Article III court there was not a constitutionality problem. Additionally, VLJs appointments require vetting and approval from the President.
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Post by aljhopefully on Aug 28, 2021 12:30:31 GMT -5
The Supreme Court recently in the Arthrex case addressed the VLJs. It was argued that because they make final decisions that are not reviewable by the agency and instead must be appealed directly to the U.S.Court of Appeals for Veteran's Claims that they were principal officers. The Court said because the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veteran's Claims is an Article I vs Article III court there was not a constitutionality problem. Additionally, VLJs appointments require vetting and approval from the President. Good to know. Another error in their argument is that technically VLJs do not have final decisionmaking authority. The BVA Vice Chairman reviews VLJ decisions through the Office of Quality Review. BVA also reviews VLJ decisions through a reconsideration board presided by the BVA Chairman. These reviews aren’t common in practice, but the law and regs are there. Similarly, SEC ALJs were deemed to not have final decisionmaking authority because SEC commissioners had the discretion to review SEC ALJ decisions. |
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Post by neufenland on Aug 28, 2021 21:03:42 GMT -5
The Supreme Court recently in the Arthrex case addressed the VLJs. It was argued that because they make final decisions that are not reviewable by the agency and instead must be appealed directly to the U.S.Court of Appeals for Veteran's Claims that they were principal officers. The Court said because the U.S. Court of Appeals for Veteran's Claims is an Article I vs Article III court there was not a constitutionality problem. Additionally, VLJs appointments require vetting and approval from the President. Good to know. Another error in their argument is that technically VLJs do not have final decisionmaking authority. The BVA Vice Chairman reviews VLJ decisions through the Office of Quality Review. BVA also reviews VLJ decisions through a reconsideration board presided by the BVA Chairman. These reviews aren’t common in practice, but the law and regs are there. Similarly, SEC ALJs were deemed to not have final decisionmaking authority because SEC commissioners had the discretion to review SEC ALJ decisions. Petitions for reconsideration have to be initiated by the Veteran, but I forgot about those. QR reviews decisions, but can't make the VLJ change the disposition. Or, at least they couldn't when I was there. They would issue an "exception," but it was up to the VLJ to do a revision or not. I specifically recall a couple of times when my judge called me in over an exception and said he didn't care; he was doing it the way I wrote in the draft. Maybe that's changed, I dunno. |
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Post by aljhopefully on Aug 28, 2021 23:54:17 GMT -5
Good to know. Another error in their argument is that technically VLJs do not have final decisionmaking authority. The BVA Vice Chairman reviews VLJ decisions through the Office of Quality Review. BVA also reviews VLJ decisions through a reconsideration board presided by the BVA Chairman. These reviews aren’t common in practice, but the law and regs are there. Similarly, SEC ALJs were deemed to not have final decisionmaking authority because SEC commissioners had the discretion to review SEC ALJ decisions. Petitions for reconsideration have to be initiated by the Veteran, but I forgot about those. QR reviews decisions, but can't make the VLJ change the disposition. Or, at least they couldn't when I was there. They would issue an "exception," but it was up to the VLJ to do a revision or not. I specifically recall a couple of times when my judge called me in over an exception and said he didn't care; he was doing it the way I wrote in the draft. Maybe that's changed, I dunno. Idk, check out the reg on finality of decisions: www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/20.1100“ Unless the Chairman of the Board orders reconsideration…. all Board decisions are final on the date stamped on the face of the decision…. [T]he decision rendered by the reconsideration Panel in an appeal in which the Chairman has ordered reconsideration is final.” |
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Post by neufenland on Aug 29, 2021 9:36:56 GMT -5
Petitions for reconsideration have to be initiated by the Veteran, but I forgot about those. QR reviews decisions, but can't make the VLJ change the disposition. Or, at least they couldn't when I was there. They would issue an "exception," but it was up to the VLJ to do a revision or not. I specifically recall a couple of times when my judge called me in over an exception and said he didn't care; he was doing it the way I wrote in the draft. Maybe that's changed, I dunno. Idk, check out the reg on finality of decisions: www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/38/20.1100“ Unless the Chairman of the Board orders reconsideration…. all Board decisions are final on the date stamped on the face of the decision…. [T]he decision rendered by the reconsideration Panel in an appeal in which the Chairman has ordered reconsideration is final.” Right, but the Chairman doesn't initiate review of a VLJ decision sua sponte. I mean, I guess she could, but I never heard of that when I was there. |
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Post by boomer on Sept 4, 2021 5:19:40 GMT -5
With respect to reconsideration of a Board decision at BVA, the Chairman can order reconsideration, but not order a specific result upon a grant of a motion for recon. The recon decision goes to a panel of Board Members (VLJs) who then have the same decisional independence as in any other Board decision.
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