otter
New Member
Posts: 16 
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Post by otter on Sept 17, 2022 17:13:11 GMT -5
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Post by Pixie on Sept 17, 2022 23:16:58 GMT -5
Quite frankly, I would rather be where I am than where he is now. For a number of reasons. Pixie |
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otter
New Member
Posts: 16
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Post by otter on Sept 18, 2022 10:46:16 GMT -5
I'm sure many people feel that way about Cleveland but I was referring to the job, not the location. I knew about Judge Denney in Nevada (reserve Army JAG!) and Judge Silvain in SD Ohio, but I also just heard about Judge Knapp in ND Ohio. Throw in this most recent announcement and that's four ALJs in two years becoming magistrate judges. Maybe there are others. That brings me back to the question, what did they do right that I'm doing wrong?
Now, if you're saying you'd rather be an SSA ALJ than a federal magistrate judge, then we'll have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Pixie on Sept 18, 2022 11:24:37 GMT -5
I'm sure many people feel that way about Cleveland but I was referring to the job, not the location. I knew about Judge Denney in Nevada (reserve Army JAG!) and Judge Silvain in SD Ohio, but I also just heard about Judge Knapp in ND Ohio. Throw in this most recent announcement and that's four ALJs in two years becoming magistrate judges. Maybe there are others. That brings me back to the question, what did they do right that I'm doing wrong? Now, if you're saying you'd rather be an SSA ALJ than a federal magistrate judge, then we'll have to agree to disagree. I, too, was referring to the job. In my younger days, I was a law clerk to a district court judge, so I know the job from the inside. Pixie |
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Post by jagvet on Sept 18, 2022 14:54:07 GMT -5
I agree with Pixie . I know of two US Mag Judges who were not reappointed after a term expired. One was just annoying (he really was). The other had been hired on a split vote of the district judges and a couple of USDC appointments later, they voted against him. Also, there's a lot of midnight calls. It is a great job, especially when trying civil cases on consent from USDC, but a lot of late night and weekend guesswork on search warrants and arrest warrants. With all the publicity now on one magistrate, I don't think I'd want it. |
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Post by superalj on Sept 18, 2022 21:59:38 GMT -5
It’s also a very political job just like Article II judges except without the lifetime appointment. I think competitive service ALJs are the most qualified and vetted federal judges since at least we took an examination through OPM. Also, did you see this…. Judge subjected staff to insults, outbursts, court investigation finds www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2022/09/15/judge-carmen-garza-complaint/ |
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Post by tsatty on Sept 19, 2022 12:13:39 GMT -5
Ah, but there are courthouses in Yosemite and Yellowstone where magistrates get to go hang out for a few months every summer. The numbers of visitors in those national parks justify the presence of a part-time magistrate. I’d love to have that Magistrate job!
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Post by jagvet on Sept 19, 2022 13:40:12 GMT -5
Ah, but there are courthouses in Yosemite and Yellowstone where magistrates get to go hang out for a few months every summer. The numbers of visitors in those national parks justify the presence of a part-time magistrate. I’d love to have that Magistrate job! I was many years ago a federal public defender. The courts needed a public defender to go to Yosemite for the summer so they could do the mag court work there. It was VERY tempting, but I decided not to apply (some of my kids were still home). There was a murder in the park that summer, and the lawyer who had thought he or she had the best temp assignment on earth had to stay through the winter working on a capital case. I don't know who it was, but I'll bet he or she regretted applying. I don't know how long the assignment lasted, but the winters must have been brutal and lonely. |
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Post by luckylady2 on Sept 19, 2022 18:39:59 GMT -5
First, please be aware that ALJ does not necessarily mean that the ALJ worked for Social Security. There are ALJs in other federal agencies. The ALJ in the article cited worked for the Securities and Exchange Commission. US Magistrate Judges do a LOT of criminal work, and usually people with a strong FEDERAL criminal law background and courtroom experience are appointed. They often have done stints in the US Attorney's Office or as a Federal Public Defender. The position also often goes to someone who is well known to the US District Court judges in the district. Many are veterans and have JAG experience and the veterans' preference in being hired. BTW, tsatty, the US Magistrate Judge for Yosemite does not work part-time and spend the rest of her time being a tourist in the park. When not working in Yosemite (a year-round job), she sits in the Fresno division of the US District Court for the Eastern District of California. The Yosemite work is pretty much all crimes on federal lands. The Fresno docket includes civil and criminal matters. In the winter, the commute between Fresno and Yosemite into and out of the Sierra can be pretty challenging. The US Magistrate Judge in Yellowstone is full-time, year-round in the town of Mammoth, WY. Again, no part-time job and spending the rest being a tourist, but you get to deal with a lot of tourists. I agree with Pixie and jagvet . I've worked in more than one job for the federal courts and have several former colleagues who have become US Magistrate Judges. I'd rather be an ALJ. |
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Post by rp on Sept 19, 2022 22:33:48 GMT -5
Also a former Assistant Federal Public Defender and I agree with all the other comments. A US Magistrate Judge has a myriad of duties that require them to be on call 24 hours when they are the duty Magistrate. In many districts you might be one of 2 or 3 or the only Magistrate. That means you are at the beck and call of every federal LEO who has a warrant application that needs approval. I once spent an evening waiting for an initial appearance on a client until midnight because the Magistrate asked that I be present for cooperation purposes. Additionally the extra pay is not enough for the weekend and after hours work IMHO. I too would rather be an ALJ.
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Post by luckylady2 on Sept 20, 2022 14:20:55 GMT -5
Also, otter , upon expiration of a term, the District Courts usually either send out a notice for comments if they intend to re-appoint a Magistrate, or, if they are going to appoint a new one, they solicit applications. All of the ALJs that were appointed applied for the job and were selected after competitive evaluation by the Administrative Office of US Courts and the US District Court judges. It's not a situation in which any of the ALJs were just sitting around minding their own business and suddenly got tapped to be a magistrate. |
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Post by FrogEsq on Sept 20, 2022 14:23:55 GMT -5
ALJs are notorious for not minding their own business  |
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Post by dshawn on Sept 20, 2022 18:31:58 GMT -5
Not to pile on, but I clerked for both a Federal District Court Judge and a Federal Magistrate Judge when, as Billy Joel sings, I wore a younger man’s clothes. The former I would consider, the latter, not so much for the reasons previously noted. Although, I will say “traffic court” (as it was called) relating to federal lands and installations was, at times, remarkably entertaining. The things people think are ok to do on federal land are amazing.
I was only a clerk, but the magistrate gig was no piece of cake. I’d rather remain an ALJ too.
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Post by jagvet on Sept 20, 2022 18:58:54 GMT -5
In EDNC, the Chief US District Judge at the time lived in Elizabeth City, so to justify holding court there rather than travelling often for big court in other places, he did magistrate court cases out there himself. There were some amazing cases, and the USDJ loved handling these misdemeanors and traffic cases for the fun of it, as did I as an assistant FPD.
My clients were charged with urinating in the Wright Brothers Memorial at Kitty Hawk (on a sand dune), walking a dog in a roped-off area, fishing without a permit, selling unlicensed crabs off-season from a truck in a national park, mooning a camping family. These were so much fun, and even the judge (a sourpuss) would crack up.
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Post by rp on Sept 21, 2022 21:13:58 GMT -5
We had a National Cemetery in our jurisdiction. We once had a case where the accused threw rocks at, and struck, geese. Guilty as charged. 😂
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Post by neufenland on Sept 22, 2022 8:58:27 GMT -5
We had a National Cemetery in our jurisdiction. We once had a case where the accused threw rocks at, and struck, geese. Guilty as charged. 😂 Canada geese are protected species, right? I was chased by a hissing non-migratory one in a Metro (WMATA) parking lot years ago. I had to run to my car. I hate them. Many of them just stay put in areas these days and have become pests. They've essentially become large pigeons with slightly better reputations. |
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Post by nylawyer on Sept 22, 2022 10:19:06 GMT -5
We had a National Cemetery in our jurisdiction. We once had a case where the accused threw rocks at, and struck, geese. Guilty as charged. 😂 Canada geese are protected species, right? I was chased by a hissing non-migratory one in a Metro (WMATA) parking lot years ago. I had to run to my car. I hate them. Many of them just stay put in areas these days and have become pests. They've essentially become large pigeons with slightly better reputations. In college, I worked a construction/building maintenance job for a company that owned office parks that were inundated with geese. One morning I came in and my boss brought me over to the fountain in front of one of the buildings. A baby goose was frantically swimming around. His wings had become saturated and he couldn't fly without drying them off, but because of the ledge around the water he couldn't get out, and his flock had left him. My boss explained that because the goose was protected, I could not let him drown. But, I also was not permitted to touch him. Nor could I frighten him. (This was in response to my observation he could probably fly if properly motivated, such as if a summer employee were to suddenly belly flop into the water right next to him). It was my job to figure out a way, given those restrictions, to get that gosling out of the fountain. I built a series of ramps and spent the morning trying to coax the stupid bird, to no avail. People from the office buildings came out for their coffee breaks, and then their lunchs to watch. Huge crowds gathered in droves to watch the idiot trying to talk a goose into walking up a 2x4. Finally, someone from wildlife protection showed up. They reached in, grabbed the goose by the neck, and dragged him out. Which I could have done within the first two minutes. True story. (I have a related story involving that same job, same fountain, and goose droppings, but it is NSFW.) |
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Post by arkstfan on Sept 23, 2022 12:37:58 GMT -5
In my little Walter Mittie fantasy world, the AC would be drawn from people with at least 3 years ALJ experience with AC members tasked out of each regional office.
Each US District Court or combination of district courts would have a magistrate with a primary focus on Social Security appeals who would have at least 7 years experience in Social Security administrative law whether as an ALJ or a representative.
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Post by rp on Sept 23, 2022 14:55:18 GMT -5
In my little Walter Mittie fantasy world, the AC would be drawn from people with at least 3 years ALJ experience with AC members tasked out of each regional office. Each US District Court or combination of district courts would have a magistrate with a primary focus on Social Security appeals who would have at least 7 years experience in Social Security administrative law whether as an ALJ or a representative. I actually know of 2 districts that handle SSA cases that way. I don’t think either Magistrate was a rep or ALJ but they have developed expertise in disability cases and they recommend a lot less remands in my observation. I believe this is the exception and not the norm, unfortunately. |
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Post by hillsarealive on Sept 23, 2022 15:27:01 GMT -5
In my little Walter Mittie fantasy world, the AC would be drawn from people with at least 3 years ALJ experience with AC members tasked out of each regional office. Each US District Court or combination of district courts would have a magistrate with a primary focus on Social Security appeals who would have at least 7 years experience in Social Security administrative law whether as an ALJ or a representative. I actually know of 2 districts that handle SSA cases that way. I don’t think either Magistrate was a rep or ALJ but they have developed expertise in disability cases and they recommend a lot less remands in my observation. I believe this is the exception and not the norm, unfortunately. Seems like a good setup if the magistrate is reasonably fair-minded, as most are. And if he/she is not, I suppose SSA could decline magistrate judge jurisdiction (assuming the hypothetical U.S. attorney's office was onboard as such a move would surely irritate the court). |
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