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Post by zero on Jan 12, 2009 14:31:23 GMT -5
Does anyone know if OPM intends to conduct another exam in 2009?
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Post by chieftain on Jan 12, 2009 15:20:53 GMT -5
I have no knowledge one way or the other, but I would shocked if they did. The register was reopened this time to accommodate SSA's request to replenish the register even with several hundred qualified people on the register. If asked again, I would expect OPM to politely decline.
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Post by jagghagg on Jan 12, 2009 18:18:16 GMT -5
Chieftain, why would OPM "politely decline" when they happily agreed before when there was no need?
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Post by pm on Jan 12, 2009 18:36:54 GMT -5
I don't think OPM "happily agreed" to reopen. They grudgingly agreed. Unless ODAR hires more ALJs than planned this year, ODAR may not be asking for a reopening in 2009 anyway. If they do, they will be looking at a hiring time frame of spring 2010, and OPM will by then have started plans for the 2010 reopening. OPM will have to reopen in 2010 and I don't think they will be looking for extra work in 2009. They can slide from late 2009 to 2010 on the strength of the 2008 reopening and the palnned reopening in 2010.
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Post by lawcat on Jan 12, 2009 19:23:42 GMT -5
I don't understand the posts that indicate that if you were on the previous cert, you can't get on this next one (SSA wants a small group of applicants that they didn't hire in 2008, so they want a small cert before the next big one). If they want to hire those individuals, why can't they? Assuming that those applicants still have high enough scores to get in the next round, which I'm assuming they do.
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Post by pm on Jan 12, 2009 19:46:31 GMT -5
ODAR can't hire anyone without a cert. They do not currently have a cert. ODAR may not be able to request a cert at present because of the lack of a federal budget.
If ODAR waits until the new people are added to the register, their current favorites will slide further down the register and ODAR may not be able to reach them.
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Post by lawcat on Jan 12, 2009 20:08:25 GMT -5
That seems really unfair to the applicants who have already jumped through all the hoops, but I guess no one ever said this process was fair....
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Post by chieftain on Jan 12, 2009 20:50:04 GMT -5
JH, my thought is that the two times the register opened in '07 and '08, the number of applicants was limited to push the process along quickly. These two combined application periods will yield a register with about 600 names remaining. If I were OPM, I would say that is quite enough for at least two years if ODAR is going to hire about 100 per year.
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Post by jagghagg on Jan 13, 2009 3:21:21 GMT -5
Despite some suggestions to the contrary, I understand the process. All I am saying is that the characterizations of "happily" (which indicates OPM was in cahoots with SSA) or "grudgingly" (which indicates the mighty OPM was forced) are assumptions, and only assumptions. (Personally, I'm an adherent to the "cahoots" theory.)
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Post by lawandorder on Jan 13, 2009 9:43:31 GMT -5
OPM problaby conducted the 2008 exam to give a chance to those who were unable to submit the application by the closing date in 2007. As someone said here, I would think that they would open a window in 2010. As for now, they might have enough candidates to serve their needs.
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Post by valkyrie on Jan 13, 2009 10:00:07 GMT -5
"All I am saying is that the characterizations of "happily" (which indicates OPM was in cahoots with SSA) or "grudgingly" (which indicates the mighty OPM was forced) are assumptions, and only assumptions. (Personally, I'm an adherent to the "cahoots" theory.)"
Your glossing over of the congressional involvement is pretty cavalier. Congress made an issue of the backlog and accepted ODAR's lack of ALJs excuse as one of the reasons. OPM has been under tremendous pressure from Congress to create the registers and certificates desired by ODAR. OPM has responded grudgingly in the spirit of, "the fact that your screwed-up agency starred in a CBS special report should not create an emergency manpower and budget-sucking priority in my agency." Don't forget, from OPM's perspective, the squeaky ALJ wheels are almost exclusively ODAR ALJs. Think of the posts on this site in terms of how much complaining, FOIAs, and threatening of lawsuits you hear about regarding the ODAR hiring, as compared to the few other hires from other agencies. OPM loves ODAR like a migraine.
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Post by jagghagg on Jan 13, 2009 10:08:33 GMT -5
What is with you, Val ? Pavlovian ?
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jcse
Full Member
Posts: 101
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Post by jcse on Jan 13, 2009 10:36:55 GMT -5
I think we can continue to throw out theories and conjecture, but if there are any practicing ALJs out there who are in the ALJ Union, may be they can let us know where things stand as to the "happily" vs. "grudgingly" question?? After all, OPM hired many ODAR ALJs to interview us; those ALJs must know something of the process..?
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Post by zero on Jan 13, 2009 10:49:57 GMT -5
OPM problaby conducted the 2008 exam to give a chance to those who were unable to submit the application by the closing date in 2007. As someone said here, I would think that they would open a window in 2010. As for now, they might have enough candidates to serve their needs. Yes, OPM was concerned that its practice of limiting the applicants may have unfairly shut out some deserving applicants who were not as quick on the draw. That's why it ran the 2008 exam. PMSL |
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Post by valkyrie on Jan 13, 2009 11:25:53 GMT -5
"I think we can continue to throw out theories and conjecture, but if there are any practicing ALJs out there who are in the ALJ Union, may be they can let us know where things stand as to the "happily" vs. "grudgingly" question?? After all, OPM hired many ODAR ALJs to interview us; those ALJs must know something of the process..?"
I don't know of any judges or anyone in national ODAR management who considers ODAR's relationship with OPM to be cordial in the least. If anything, the ODAR people wonder if OPM has any idea of what ODAR's mission and responsibilities are. The reason ODAR ALJs are usually the ones used in the OPM hiring process is a simple matter of numbers and availability.
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Post by chieftain on Jan 13, 2009 11:31:39 GMT -5
Valkyrie,
I'm not questioning your assessment of ODAR's and OPM's relationship as chilly because I really don't know. But if your assessment is correct, why is it that OPM acquiesced to ODAR's request and re-opened the register in 2008?
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Post by valkyrie on Jan 13, 2009 13:44:05 GMT -5
Chieftain,
OPM is not acquiescing to ODAR so much as Congress.
Think of your mother chewing your little brother a new one for the huge mess he made in the living room. She tells him to clean up the living room or be skinned alive, and then she grabs you by the arm and tells you to help him, even though you still haven't finished cleaning your own room or your homework. 1) you aren't going to tell your mother "no," 2) you now wish more than ever that your brother will play in traffic, 3) while you do help your brother clean up, your attitude would be gothic at best.
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Post by morgullord on Jan 13, 2009 14:36:38 GMT -5
In April 2007, CoSS testified before Congress that the problem with the backlog was a shortage of ALJs and that he could not hire ALJs because OPM had redoing the process and could not give SSA a complete cert if SSA asked for one. The next person to testify before the committee was OPM's head. She went into the committee room and got her butt handed to her. At the end of her testimony, she promised that she would have a register ready for SSA by October 2007. A few days later, OPM reopened the register. 600 applicants got on the register. Approximately 200 were subsequently hired. Because of the Rule of Three, if SSA asks for another cert for 150 ALJ positions, there are not enough names on the register to create a legal certificate. Therefore, at the behest of SSA, OPM has reopened the process for people to get on the register.
SSA has twice forced OPM into what OPM considers precipitate actions. There is no love lost between OPM and SSA. While it may appear to the untrained eye that the two agencies are acting in coordination and in harmony with each other, such is not the case.
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Post by privateatty on Jan 13, 2009 17:46:44 GMT -5
Thank you, morgullord, for a historical and succinct answer. For those of us on the 2008 Certificate, it is good to be reminded why the Register had to be re-opened. Sometimes emotions cloud our historical perspective.
You will recall that in May, 2007, OPM's head, Ms. Springer, expressed surprise before Congress that there was any need to reopen the Register.
Finally, there are posters on this Board who were on the old pre-2007 Register who had been on it for a very, very long time. Yet, more than two that I know of were hired in 2008. It's hard to imagine anyone more deserving.
There are morals to these "stories", but I'll be darned if I know what they are.
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Post by carjack on Jan 13, 2009 17:52:15 GMT -5
This has some real "As the World Turns" qualities to it. Intrigue deception and a chilly reception. No wonder so many legal types are spellbound. Paranoia IS interesting. But is he really paranoid, or are they after him? Why else would there be a chilly reception when both are statutory agencies? What're really going on?
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