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Post by gunner on Nov 7, 2013 20:36:24 GMT -5
Your suggestion sounds fine in theory; however that list contains the names of people who may not wish to have that information published. The transfer list is not a public document. Concur. Transfer list with ALJ names is verboten and will be deleted if it ever shows up. However, I have no problem if someone just wants to post cities with numbers of pending requests. I believe some posters have posted such info in the past. I believe if one were to request the list via FOIA, this is what you'd wind up with after the redactions.
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Post by ssaogc on Nov 7, 2013 20:49:21 GMT -5
Concur. Transfer list with ALJ names is verboten and will be deleted if it ever shows up. However, I have no problem if someone just wants to post cities with numbers of pending requests. I believe some posters have posted such info in the past. I believe if one were to request the list via FOIA, this is what you'd wind up with after the redactions. FOIA applies to the federal government not a private union.
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Post by gottabeme on Nov 7, 2013 21:35:14 GMT -5
To touch back on the earlier thread, I'm a insider who has seen 4 senior attorneys (SA), two supervisors and one attorney advisors (AA) make ALJ in the past 5 years, although some of these had transferred out before being picked up. 4 SA's and 4 AA's applied this time and only one made it through. I also know several Appeals officers (AO) that did not make it through and several outsiders that made it through on the last application but did not make it this time. I know of one vet that was on the last list but didn't make it this time and one vet that did. No rhyme or reason here.
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Post by epic0ego on Nov 8, 2013 2:02:19 GMT -5
To touch back on the earlier thread, I'm a insider who has seen 4 senior attorneys (SA), two supervisors and one attorney advisors (AA) make ALJ in the past 5 years, although some of these had transferred out before being picked up. 4 SA's and 4 AA's applied this time and only one made it through. I also know several Appeals officers (AO) that did not make it through and several outsiders that made it through on the last application but did not make it this time. I know of one vet that was on the last list but didn't make it this time and one vet that did. No rhyme or reason here. with fewer insiders having made it through this go round I would think that would make them a pretty hot commodity, at least as far as ODAR is concerned.
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Post by privateatty on Nov 8, 2013 6:26:36 GMT -5
Your suggestion sounds fine in theory; however that list contains the names of people who may not wish to have that information published. The transfer list is not a public document. Concur. Transfer list with ALJ names is verboten and will be deleted if it ever shows up. However, I have no problem if someone just wants to post cities with numbers of pending requests. I believe some posters have posted such info in the past. This has been going on since 2007--ALJs posting the transfer list. I have yet to see that it really helped anyone though. The ODAR transfer list has been called a "moving target" and that seems to be the consensus. One minute there's a vacancy, next minute its gone. Three months is a long time. Apparetnly some offices have a continuing need. But, and this is the big but, some of these offices that have a large number of Judges who want out--well. that may be due to it being a lousy office--a HOCALJ wedded to the Hitlerian school of Management or a bipolar HOD.
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Post by christina on Nov 8, 2013 6:38:06 GMT -5
privateatty, got a chuckle out of your comments
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true
Full Member
Posts: 81
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Post by true on Nov 8, 2013 9:00:48 GMT -5
I worked at 2 ODAR offices. Of those offices, except for 3 attorney advisors who are now Senior Attorneys, all attorneys and supervising attorneys are now ALJs. About 9 total. None of them are vets. As I said in a previous post, this time only 1 person from ODAR in my state made it to phaseIII.
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Post by epic0ego on Nov 8, 2013 9:20:09 GMT -5
redryder posted on the transfer list thread that the new union contract requires ODAR management to exhaust the entire transfer list for that office before going to the cert for that office. I hope I am stating redryder's post correctly. if that is the case, I think narrow big-city GALs will go the way of the dinosaur. that seems like an impossible strategy under these circumstances irrespective of real life circumstances.
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Post by ssaogc on Nov 8, 2013 9:50:48 GMT -5
redryder posted on the transfer list thread that the new union contract requires ODAR management to exhaust the entire transfer list for that office before going to the cert for that office. I hope I am stating redryder's post correctly. if that is the case, I think narrow big-city GALs will go the way of the dinosaur. that seems like an impossible strategy under these circumstances irrespective of real life circumstances. Epic, I read redryder and bartleby's posts and thought the same thing. So now everyone on the transfer list gets a letter asking for transfer availability. If the #1 person does not accept then they will move to the #2 and so on. So, if your GAL is limited to popular locations you might be in for a long wait or no job opportunity whatsoever, despite having a kick butt interview with SSA (this assumes that SSA wanted to fill this location before the transfer acceptance). Essentially because the popular locations you interview for may go to a transfer and leave you looking in. Now Bartleby did say that sometimes ODAR does what ODAR wants and grievences fly but I would say that this "sometimes" is by exception. Perhaps the agency will move the transfer list and then see where the vacacies are before requesting the Cert but I do not know if that is the way that things work. My take is that you have to have some (if not many) crapland offices on your GAL because that is where the majority of the openings will be and if you are #1-#3 you have a fighting chance, especially if you are a veteran who "crushes" the agency interview. Yes, there might be one or two exceptions of guys/gals who go to Orlando, NYC, LA, Dallas, Denver, Seattle, etc but those folks are not going to be where the large number of hires will be placed.
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Post by funkyodar on Nov 8, 2013 10:18:54 GMT -5
I think ssaogc and epic are right. With one caveat.
The transfer list is somewhat deceptive.
For some reason, people put themselves on the list and then repeatedly turn down offered transfers. This practice skews the numbers.
For instance, every transfer list I have seen has one lonely alj listed as wanting a transfer to my office. Yet, I happen to know this judge and know that a transfer has been offered and turned down at least thrice.
Further, a good alj friend in a very popular locale recently told me that the 5 or 6 on the transfer list for his city were all in front of him on the list but declined the transfer when offered allowing him to take it.
So, while the list may indicate 6 transfer requests to a specific popular local that ultimately has say 3 slots to fill, several of those 6 may decline leaving some slots to be filled with newbies.
Any of our esteemed robed members have insight on why some would ask for a transfer and take a slot on the list only to decline the move when offered? Is it a matter of timing?
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Post by epic0ego on Nov 8, 2013 10:34:57 GMT -5
excellent insights. i may not be close to landing a position but i feel like i am a little closer to understanding the process. let's hear it for ODAR "exceptions"!
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Post by peterprinciple on Nov 8, 2013 13:08:38 GMT -5
No robe here, but one possible motive would be to get on the list as a placeholder for years down the line. Let's say I have kids in high school and would love to live in Denver someday (which had a long waiting list as of the last list published here) but don't want to take them out if their schools. Why not get on the transfer list and hopefully work my way up on the priority order during those last few years of high school? Another reason, as has been noted in prior posts, is related to the housing market. There are some people who have made placeholders on a transfer list who ran into market issues with regard to the value of their homes during this most recent downturn. They were unable to sell their homes for the values that they believed they needed or wanted and have decided to the delay any transfers until the market rebounds.
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Post by maquereau on Nov 9, 2013 12:25:39 GMT -5
Super and Peter are both right about reasons for declining an offer. Sometimes an offer is declined because the ALJ has another location for which s/he is also on the transfer list and s/he reckons that the other location will have a vacacny in the near future and that spot is preferable. Finally, someone may have put his name on the list thinking that he would not like the location to which he has been assigned, but then changes his mind and loves his current spot and doesn't want to leave. So that ALJ's name is just filling up space on the transfer list with no real intention any more to go to the transfer location.
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Post by privateatty on Nov 9, 2013 16:16:33 GMT -5
privateatty, got a chuckle out of your comments Aw shucks, christina. Thx.
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Post by gottabeme on Nov 10, 2013 11:43:13 GMT -5
I hope you are right!
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Post by gottabeme on Nov 10, 2013 11:47:18 GMT -5
OOPS, I was trying to respond to Epic0's comment, "with fewer insiders having made it through this go round I would think that would make them a pretty hot commodity, at least as far as ODAR is concerned." wen I said, "I hope you are right".
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Post by epic0ego on Nov 11, 2013 18:13:49 GMT -5
best of luck to you, gottabeme. i am big on predictions and not much on having them pan out, but here's how i see it stacking up. i think insiders have an advantage because ODAR has always sought insiders and always will. fewer insiders seem to have made it onto this register, based on the posts I have seen, and they will therefore become even more "hot." my crapland colleagues will not appreciate this view, but i think their star may have lost a little luster. the transfer list is heavy with 4th, 5th, and 6th region transfer requests. we already knew that California, Florida, and Colorado assignments are heavily sought after. But the South is no secret anymore. People want to move there for low cost of living and to retire. i want to move to the most expensive places in the country, so i hope that will offset my narrow GAL choices.
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Post by gunner on Nov 12, 2013 1:32:59 GMT -5
I believe if one were to request the list via FOIA, this is what you'd wind up with after the redactions. FOIA applies to the federal government not a private union. As an outsider, I may be making ignorant assumptions. But I assume someone inside the federal government has the list too. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by epic0ego on Nov 12, 2013 8:08:50 GMT -5
FOIA applies to the federal government not a private union. As an outsider, I may be making ignorant assumptions. But I assume someone inside the federal government has the list too. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Gunner, ssaogc posted the redacted transfer list on the thread "please post the redacted 2013 transfer list." bartleby, funky and others point out that the numbers may not be as bad as they seem because some ALJs on the list will not actually transfer if they receive an offer to transfer at this time. this could be for a variety of personal reasons. but the list seems illustrative to me of the areas that are in high demand and where a narrow GAL for those areas might be tough.
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Post by 71stretch on Nov 12, 2013 9:47:59 GMT -5
As an outsider, I may be making ignorant assumptions. But I assume someone inside the federal government has the list too. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Gunner, ssaogc posted the redacted transfer list on the thread "please post the redacted 2013 transfer list." bartleby, funky and others point out that the numbers may not be as bad as they seem because some ALJs on the list will not actually transfer if they receive an offer to transfer at this time. this could be for a variety of personal reasons. but the list seems illustrative to me of the areas that are in high demand and where a narrow GAL for those areas might be tough. And on that thread, others pointed out that the list seems to be outdated in some respects in that some of the requested transfers have already happened, and some have been mooted by the ALJ taking a HOCALJ job. And, some have turned down their transfers on the list multiple times.
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