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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 30, 2014 12:16:36 GMT -5
I agree steve7650. It would be OMHA starting from scratch again. As to you Missundaztood, you wouldn't end up on their list unless you were not hired by SSA for an ALJ position. This would be somewhere a month or more down the line if SSA takes all of OMHA's selected candidates. So, I agree with steve7650 that it is very likely OHMA's offers will either come first or SSA somehow agrees not to give offers to the OMHA selected candidates, leaving those chosen by OMHA with basically one choice, OMHA or nothing. Either way, I can't see OMHA wanting to go back to square one again.
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Post by Missundaztood on Jun 30, 2014 12:17:27 GMT -5
OMHA would just ask for supplemental names. Like SSA did when folks started declining locations. Not terribly efficient. Would have to dip into lower scores -- good for me and any others who they might reach then. The difference is that the supplemental names given to SSA were almost all people who had already submitted their paperwork and were being interviewed by SSA for other cities on their GALs, and thus the association of those candidates with additional cities didn't materially slow down SSA's hiring schedule. If SSA hires all of the people interviewed by OMHA, OMHA doesn't have a group of ready-to-hire "plan B candidates," and it will have to re-start its 3.5 month hiring process from day 1. It seems unlikely that result will be allowed. Yeah, because the government is known for its efficiency in hiring. When did we begin this journey?
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Post by Missundaztood on Jun 30, 2014 12:20:36 GMT -5
I didn't say it was what OMHA would want to do. I meant that is what OMHA will have to do if it doesn't start making offers before SSA. Incredibly inefficient. And probably really stupid if it has candidates it wants already.
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Post by Missundaztood on Jun 30, 2014 12:27:08 GMT -5
I agree steve7650. It would be OMHA starting from scratch again. As to you Missundaztood, you wouldn't end up on their list unless you were not hired by SSA for an ALJ position. This would be somewhere a month or more down the line if SSA takes all of OMHA's selected candidates. So, I agree with steve7650 that it is very likely OHMA's offers will either come first or SSA somehow agrees not to give offers to the OMHA selected candidates, leaving those chosen by OMHA with basically one choice, OMHA or nothing. Either way, I can't see OMHA wanting to go back to square one again. MPD, thanks for at least implying that I have a chance with SSA on this round. Really hoping that's the case, but if not, hoping I don't get 3-struck or a NR and will roll to the next round and continue on this joyous journey!
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 30, 2014 12:34:18 GMT -5
I agree steve7650. It would be OMHA starting from scratch again. As to you Missundaztood, you wouldn't end up on their list unless you were not hired by SSA for an ALJ position. This would be somewhere a month or more down the line if SSA takes all of OMHA's selected candidates. So, I agree with steve7650 that it is very likely OHMA's offers will either come first or SSA somehow agrees not to give offers to the OMHA selected candidates, leaving those chosen by OMHA with basically one choice, OMHA or nothing. Either way, I can't see OMHA wanting to go back to square one again. MPD, thanks for at least implying that I have a chance with SSA on this round. Really hoping that's the case, but if not, hoping I don't get 3-struck or a NR and will roll to the next round and continue on this joyous journey! I hope you do too, Missundaztood, because it would mean one less person in front of me during the next round of certs.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 30, 2014 12:40:31 GMT -5
I think it goes too far to suggest that Bob G knows who OMHA intends to hire before they make the offers. I don't think the agencies cooperate to that extent.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 30, 2014 12:53:55 GMT -5
I think it goes too far to suggest that Bob G knows who OMHA intends to hire before they make the offers. I don't think the agencies cooperate to that extent. I agree with ob53. Just cant imagine they coordinate to that extent. Now, with that said, it is my understanding that many of those in the hiring process at omha once were at ssa. So, they may well be able to call Bob or whoever and at least find out when ssa plans to offer so they can try and get out ahead. In the end not sure either agency cares. If you accept an offer with one, it wont stop the other from offering and you can stay or accept the new offer. If you decline, it wont be the first time someone told them no.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 12:54:34 GMT -5
I think it goes too far to suggest that Bob G knows who OMHA intends to hire before they make the offers. I don't think the agencies cooperate to that extent. I obviously can't comment about how closely they actually work together, but OMHA and ODAR certainly share a bloodline. From the official biography of OMHA Deputy Chief Judge Moore: Judge Moore has extensive management experience having served not only as a Hearing Office Chief ALJ, but also in acting capacities as the Associate Chief ALJ and Deputy Chief ALJ in the Office of the Chief ALJ, for the Social Security Administration (SSA). In these capacities, he was a key figure in SSA’s ALJ hiring, designing the interview process as well as the background investigation process for administrative law judge candidates referred by the Office of Personnel Management. From 2004-2011, Judge Moore was involved in the selection of over 750 ALJs for SSA, over half of the SSA ALJ Corps.
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Post by westernalj on Jun 30, 2014 13:02:31 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall someone posting that OPM removes you from the register once you accept an offer.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 30, 2014 13:05:32 GMT -5
You are absolutely correct westernalj. Once an offer is accepted you are removed from the register.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Jun 30, 2014 13:18:50 GMT -5
I'm ready to be removed from the register - for all the right reasons.
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Jun 30, 2014 13:21:34 GMT -5
I think it goes too far to suggest that Bob G knows who OMHA intends to hire before they make the offers. I don't think the agencies cooperate to that extent. I agree with ob53. Just cant imagine they coordinate to that extent. Now, with that said, it is my understanding that many of those in the hiring process at omha once were at ssa. So, they may well be able to call Bob or whoever and at least find out when ssa plans to offer so they can try and get out ahead. In the end not sure either agency cares. If you accept an offer with one, it wont stop the other from offering and you can stay or accept the new offer. If you decline, it wont be the first time someone told them no. Agree with the above. Which, if true, means that OMHA could have gotten its cert, interviewed, and selected candidates, only to see them whisked away by a more nimble ODAR? For not the first time in this process I sit here just shaking my head.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 30, 2014 13:22:43 GMT -5
I could be wrong, but I seem to recall someone posting that OPM removes you from the register once you accept an offer. That's right. Off the reg and wont be on anymore certs. But if you were already on omha's cert and took an offer from ssa, it wont mean omha cant offer you.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 30, 2014 13:29:26 GMT -5
And dont forget that omha has more than one way to separate this particular feline from its skin.
If they offer someome from the cert and are declined due to the fact ssa got in with an offer first....omha has a bunch of interested ssa judges that applied as well. While ssa is limited to hiring newbies, omha has been running their hiring with the ability to hire select newbies or experienced aljs. If a newbie declines due to preferring ssa, omha has other options that wouldnt require a supplemental cert or long wait.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 30, 2014 13:40:10 GMT -5
And dont forget that omha has more than one way to separate this particular feline from its skin. If they offer someome from the cert and are declined due to the fact ssa got in with an offer first....omha has a bunch of interested ssa judges that applied as well. While ssa is limited to hiring newbies, omha has been running their hiring with the ability to hire select newbies or experienced aljs. If a newbie declines due to preferring ssa, omha has other options that wouldnt require a supplemental cert or long wait. I think this is incorrect funky. If OMHA could hire from established ALJs at SSA, it would have already done so without resorting to the Register. The fact OMHA has to use the Register tells me they didn't have enough interest from established ALJs to by-pass the use of the Register. OMHA would much rather have established ALJs than newbies. So, if they are shut out by SSA offers they are without much recourse except to look for more transfers in the future or go back to OPM for more names.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 30, 2014 13:50:23 GMT -5
And dont forget that omha has more than one way to separate this particular feline from its skin. If they offer someome from the cert and are declined due to the fact ssa got in with an offer first....omha has a bunch of interested ssa judges that applied as well. While ssa is limited to hiring newbies, omha has been running their hiring with the ability to hire select newbies or experienced aljs. If a newbie declines due to preferring ssa, omha has other options that wouldnt require a supplemental cert or long wait. I think this is incorrect funky. If OMHA could hire from established ALJs at SSA, it would have already done so without resorting to the Register. The fact OMHA has to use the Register tells me they didn't have enough interest from established ALJs to by-pass the use of the Register. OMHA would much rather have established ALJs than newbies. So, if they are shut out by SSA offers they are without much recourse except to look for more transfers in the future or go back to OPM for more names. I dont think thats right Moo. I think they got a cert from the reg because they could and why not see what is available from this new process. Maybe you find one ir two or more you like better than the existing aljs that applied. Maybe not. If I was omha, I would check out both. Newbies would be competing with the veteran aljs that applied. In some instances you woukd hire an existjng alj, in some a newbie. But if either of your first choices declined, your second choice may be from the other category. Think about it. The intelligence reports we have is they intend to hire 7. Three of our membership reported getting called for the second interview. Is it possible the other 4 are also newbies but not board members? Sure. But it is equally likely they are filling the other slots with experienced aljs. If one of the newbies declines, it would be much quicker to fill the slot with your next highest rated experienced candidate than to get a supplemental cert.
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wayne
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Post by wayne on Jun 30, 2014 13:52:54 GMT -5
I would think, and hope, that OMHA would make its offers either prior to, or simultaneous with, the SSA/ODAR offers. If the people on this board know that SSA plans to make offers on July 9th, then surely the powers that be at OMHA know it too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 30, 2014 14:24:38 GMT -5
And dont forget that omha has more than one way to separate this particular feline from its skin. If they offer someome from the cert and are declined due to the fact ssa got in with an offer first....omha has a bunch of interested ssa judges that applied as well. While ssa is limited to hiring newbies, omha has been running their hiring with the ability to hire select newbies or experienced aljs. If a newbie declines due to preferring ssa, omha has other options that wouldnt require a supplemental cert or long wait. It seemed a while back the thought of this Board was that OMHA's refusal to pay relocation expenses, and the fact that OMHA ALJs have no union protection, and the limited number of OMHA locations would likely not make OMHA attractive to a large number of sitting ALJs. In any event, it seems as if OMHA wants to hire a few ALJ's off the register. The OMHA hiring process is different - full financial disclosure statements were required at the outset, a different set of references needed to be listed, there were 2 interviews for the successful candidates, and it seems OMHA has done some limited background investigation before extending offers (at least they have asked for fingerprints and some other background info). So OMHA has put a lot of effort into hiring a few new ALJs off the register. I cannot imagine their management will allow SSA to just hire away all of the candidates in which OMHA has made an investment and leave OMHA with zero newbie hiring opportunities. My only point has been this - SSA offers may indeed start coming out on July 9. If that's the case, OMHA offers might well be extended this week. Time will tell.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 30, 2014 14:37:04 GMT -5
I think this is incorrect funky. If OMHA could hire from established ALJs at SSA, it would have already done so without resorting to the Register. The fact OMHA has to use the Register tells me they didn't have enough interest from established ALJs to by-pass the use of the Register. OMHA would much rather have established ALJs than newbies. So, if they are shut out by SSA offers they are without much recourse except to look for more transfers in the future or go back to OPM for more names. I dont think thats right Moo. I think they got a cert from the reg because they could and why not see what is available from this new process. Maybe you find one ir two or more you like better than the existing aljs that applied. Maybe not. If I was omha, I would check out both. Newbies would be competing with the veteran aljs that applied. In some instances you woukd hire an existjng alj, in some a newbie. But if either of your first choices declined, your second choice may be from the other category. Think about it. The intelligence reports we have is they intend to hire 7. Three of our membership reported getting called for the second interview. Is it possible the other 4 are also newbies but not board members? Sure. But it is equally likely they are filling the other slots with experienced aljs. If one of the newbies declines, it would be much quicker to fill the slot with your next highest rated experienced candidate than to get a supplemental cert. You very well could be correct funky, however I think if push came to shove OMHA would rather hire experienced ALJs. There are two scenarios here. One, that OMHA didn't have enough existing ALJs apply for open OMHA positions, so they needed to use the Register. Two, that OMHA has almost enough existing ALJs wishing to transfer to OMHA, but needs to fill one or two other positions from the Register. I think if OMHA could rely solely on the exiting ALJs who want to transfer, they would rather use those people and not have to worry about bringing those people up to speed on training and such as much. Just saying this is my opinion and you could be equally correct funky with your opinion.
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Post by moopigsdad on Jun 30, 2014 14:40:21 GMT -5
I would think, and hope, that OMHA would make its offers either prior to, or simultaneous with, the SSA/ODAR offers. If the people on this board know that SSA plans to make offers on July 9th, then surely the powers that be at OMHA know it too. Wayne I do agree that OMHA is probably aware of SSA's likely offer start date and will likely make offers prior to SSA either this week or the beginning of next week. I think you might have 24 hours to accept or decline, so you may indeed have to decide on the OMHA position prior to any SSA offers coming out.
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