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Post by pm on Apr 14, 2009 11:37:58 GMT -5
Someone on TOB has reported that Astrue told the Appeals Council last Thursday (the 9th) that ODAR will hire 55 more ALJs in September and 208 in 2010.
Has anyone heard anything about this?
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Post by Pixie on Apr 15, 2009 5:04:06 GMT -5
Seems as if this was mentioned on a conference call several weeks ago. I thought I had already posted it; guess not. Don't remember the exact number, but 55 sounds about right. Pix.
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Post by chieftain on Apr 15, 2009 6:13:19 GMT -5
Is this number part of or in addition to the 155 hires previously discussed?
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Post by blueeyes on Apr 15, 2009 11:00:04 GMT -5
The new hires in September and in 2010 are in addition to those already in process. This was said by Deputy Commissioner Foster during the April 9th meeting.
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Post by privateatty on Apr 15, 2009 12:20:44 GMT -5
The new hires in September and in 2010 are in addition to those already in process. This was said by Deputy Commissioner Foster during the April 9th meeting. Well, folks, I guess that means that if you're on this Cert. and despite your score and limited GAL (as applicable), you may be able to tap your heels and be in Kansas after all!
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Post by pm on Apr 15, 2009 16:47:03 GMT -5
Thanks, Pixie and Blueyes.
Does anyone have definite info on the number that is currently in process?
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Post by Volunteer on Apr 17, 2009 13:35:39 GMT -5
I've been a member for a while, but I rarely post. Thanks to all for the great advice and insight I have received, just from browsing.
Hopefully some of you will have an answer for three questions I have about the additional hiring for fall 2009.
Question 1) (requires some assumptions)
Assuming that 55 additional ALJs will be hired in the fall, and assuming that OPM could not reopen the register and have new ALJ candidates ready to add to the existing register by the fall, and accepting that the lowest score to make cert. for the April 2009 interviews was reported at 60 (I think someone on the survey listed 57, but I think it unlikely that a person with that score made cert.), can anyone provide an educated guess about what might be the lowest score to make cert for the fall interviews?
Question 2)
I am aware that OPM will have to certify 3 individuals for each position or 165 certs. assuming 55 positions. I am also aware that some of those on the fall cert. will have already been interviewed (thus have scores of 60 or greater). Given the added wrinkle of geographic availability, is there any way to make an educated guess about how many individuals SSA would have to interview this fall (since those who make cert. again but have already been interviewed won't be interviewed again).
Question 3)
There may be no way to determine the answer my next question . I have seen estimates by those who post that there are approximately 775 individuals on the current register. I think I read where someone had calculated a median score of 67 or 68 for those who had most recently completed the SI and WD and also responded to the survey. I was wondering if the person who figured out the median score could estimate for me the number of individuals on the current register who might have a score that falls in a range that is lower than 61 and greater than 57? My score was 58.
Thank in advance for thinking about this and for your replies.
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Post by okeydokey on Apr 17, 2009 14:39:58 GMT -5
(1) I don't think the question can be answered. However, I am not 100% sure that there will have to be a new request for cert. If there are enough people on the current cert. to fill the next requirements, perhaps another cert. is not necessary. (2) Probably not. (3) A most interesting question. If this was done on a bell curve, and adjusting for VP points, the mean score before selections and without accounting for VP could have been 65 (thus, one standard deviation is 6.5), then one would expect that 40% of the scores are 59 or below (and 40% are 71 or higher). 40% of 900 is 360. Then you have to figure out how many of those with scores below 59 got VP that pushed them above 59, i.e., with scores of 49 to 59 for 10 pointers and 54 to 59 for 5 pointers. So, assuming 1) a bell curve; 2) 900 on the register; 3) about 20% receiving VP, My guess is that there are 250 to 300 on the register at or below 59 and, maybe, another 20 or 30 at 59 or 60.
Then again, I could be totally wrong.
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Post by valkyrie on Apr 17, 2009 15:09:08 GMT -5
You can immediately figure that about 150 of the 450 people on the current certificate will not be around for the fall certificate. 300 candidates will be left. Therefore, because of the small, 55 number for the fall, I don't think anyone new will get on the fall, 165-person certificate that was not already on the current certificate, with the possible exception of some geographic availability variables.
Going back to EagleJag's prior post in which he indicated 360 candidates were being interviewed. That would mean there are less than 100 holdovers from last year on the certificate. Interesting...
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Post by masondixon on Apr 17, 2009 17:23:31 GMT -5
For SSA Lawyer:
In reponse to your questions, I remain unconvinced that the current certificate is actually for 155 new ALJ hires. When the ALJ register was re-started in October 2007, the scores making the initial certificate of 450 names ranged as low as 55.07. I know this for sure. There were supposedly around 650 people originally placed on the ALJ register out of the 1250+ applications filed and accepted by OPM. SSA hired somewhere around 190 off that certificate, as well as a second, during 2008, leaving something like 260 candidates above 55 and another 460 on the register. The DMMS hired around a dozen more ALJs off that register and the rest of the federal agencies serviced by OPM may have, in the aggregate, hired a total of 10 other ALJs. However, some may have comes from the current ALJ ranks in other agencies. At best, the 2007 register had 440 people still on it as of last summer.
I know one candidate hired in 2008 with a score of 63+, which is the lowest score I have verified. I have heard of rating scores down to 61+ also hired, but I haven't been able to verify the information. I don't believe the rumors of candidates with scores of below 60 getting hired in 2008.
When the ALJ register was reopened in the summer of 2008, OPM limited the new candidate pool to the first 600+ new applicants, which was less than 1/2 of the orginal applicant pool in May 2007. They took applications for only two days (maybe three) if I recall, compared to the 5 days worth of applications accepted in 2007. While no one knows for sure, the best estimates (using OPM recent history as our guide) are that another 300 to 350 more candidates were fully tested - let's just say 325. Therefore, we have something like 765 people on the current register. I can't imagine OPM fully testing more than 2 dozen 10 point preference eligible veterans since October 2007.
I have repeatedly heard that the 2009 rating scores were actually lower than those assigned during the 2007 testing cycle. In my estimation, the average or mean ALJ rating score on the current register is somewhere in the very low 60s, say around 61.
The new certificate reached down to a rating score of 60.5 per my understanding. It did have some cities listed that would pick up a lot of geographically limited candidates with possibly higher scores, e.g. Washington D.C., Boston, San Francisco. However, I still find it unlikely the current certificate has 450 or more candidates on it. It's more likely SSA intends to hire 100 ALJs this spring, followed by another 55 in late summer/early fall. I think the current certificate has around 350 names on it.
I hope my answers help you somewhat. They still represent one opinion. Let the discussion begin.
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Post by privateatty on Apr 17, 2009 18:03:03 GMT -5
"I still find it unlikely the current certificate has 450 or more candidates on it. It's more likely SSA intends to hire 100 ALJs this spring, followed by another 55 in late summer/early fall. I think the current certificate has around 350 names on it."
masondixon, are you saying 155 for FY 2009?
I was lead to believe 155 (or so, as that number seems to change) now and 55 later.
Thanks for the post, though, I thought the rest was on solid ground (but what do I know)?
PS: I wish I could figure out how to link specific portions of a post as y'all do...
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Post by ALJD on Apr 17, 2009 18:24:14 GMT -5
PS: I wish I could figure out how to link specific portions of a post as y'all do... PA, On the upper right hand corner of each post, there is a "quote" option. Clicking it will open the reply window with the original post text between [ quote ] and [ /quote ] (no spaces between the brackets and quote & /quote) commands. Then you delete out the parts of the original post you don't want to quote. That's how we usually quote specific portions of a prior post. Once it's done, hit the preview button of the reply message interface to make sure it looks right. If not, edit some more, and then post it like any other message. Hope this helps. If not, pm me and let me know exactly what you meant and I'll see what I can do to help. Thanks.
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Post by zarco522 on Apr 17, 2009 20:02:36 GMT -5
I am not as up in the inside scoop as some of you all, but during my interview, I had the impression that they were interviewing a total of 320 this week and next, and that there would be two classes this Summer (elsewhere on this Board we have heard 3?), with a possible class in September. How many were in each "class" last year, for training? Also, I was told we should hear in early May (followed by a slight disclaimer that these things take time).
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Post by northwest on Apr 17, 2009 20:52:25 GMT -5
Also, I was told we should hear in early May (followed by a slight disclaimer that these things take time). Thanks! Good info! ;D
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Post by spirit on Apr 18, 2009 7:54:07 GMT -5
Is the possible class in September composed of those interviewing this round?
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bina
New Member
Posts: 11
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Post by bina on Apr 24, 2009 10:36:54 GMT -5
I've been a member for a while, but I rarely post. Thanks to all for the great advice and insight I have received, just from browsing. Hopefully some of you will have an answer for three questions I have about the additional hiring for fall 2009. Question 1) (requires some assumptions) Assuming that 55 additional ALJs will be hired in the fall, and assuming that OPM could not reopen the register and have new ALJ candidates ready to add to the existing register by the fall, and accepting that the lowest score to make cert. for the April 2009 interviews was reported at 60 (I think someone on the survey listed 57, but I think it unlikely that a person with that score made cert.), can anyone provide an educated guess about what might be the lowest score to make cert for the fall interviews? Question 2) I am aware that OPM will have to certify 3 individuals for each position or 165 certs. assuming 55 positions. I am also aware that some of those on the fall cert. will have already been interviewed (thus have scores of 60 or greater). Given the added wrinkle of geographic availability, is there any way to make an educated guess about how many individuals SSA would have to interview this fall (since those who make cert. again but have already been interviewed won't be interviewed again). Question 3) There may be no way to determine the answer my next question . I have seen estimates by those who post that there are approximately 775 individuals on the current register. I think I read where someone had calculated a median score of 67 or 68 for those who had most recently completed the SI and WD and also responded to the survey. I was wondering if the person who figured out the median score could estimate for me the number of individuals on the current register who might have a score that falls in a range that is lower than 61 and greater than 57? My score was 58. Thank in advance for thinking about this and for your replies.
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bina
New Member
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Post by bina on Apr 24, 2009 10:42:24 GMT -5
I scored a 60 and did NOT make the cert. I called one Bob Gehlken to inquire, and he told me the cutoff was actually 60.34 (or 60.38?)
That doesn't answer your question, I know, but I'm in the same boat as you, it appears ! I would very much like to know if there's any chance at all that I could be contacted re this September hiring.
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Post by privateatty on Apr 24, 2009 11:54:20 GMT -5
I scored a 60 and did NOT make the cert. I called one Bob Gehlken to inquire, and he told me the cutoff was actually 60.34 (or 60.38?) That doesn't answer your question, I know, but I'm in the same boat as you, it appears ! I would very much like to know if there's any chance at all that I could be contacted re this September hiring. The short answer is yes. Much more so if you are an insider that SSA wants.
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Post by nonamouse on Apr 24, 2009 13:55:46 GMT -5
I scored a 60 and did NOT make the cert. I called one Bob Gehlken to inquire, and he told me the cutoff was actually 60.34 (or 60.38?) That doesn't answer your question, I know, but I'm in the same boat as you, it appears ! I would very much like to know if there's any chance at all that I could be contacted re this September hiring. The short answer is yes. Much more so if you are an insider that SSA wants. I disagree with PA because any September cert will likely be for a smaller number of positions than this first one. Remember that OPM only sends over 3x the number of openings on a cert. It does not matter if ODAR wants someone or not, they cannot hire someone whose score is not sufficiently high for them to get onto a cert. Not on the cert equals not eligible for consideration by the hiring agency. If the score isn't high enough to make a large cert then it certainly won't be high enough to get onto a much smaller cert later in the year. Removing 100 or so people from the register won't help someone to move up sufficiently high if the next cert is only for 40 or 50 openings. Simple math, 3x100=300 but 3x50 is only 150 so a smaller cert does not reach as far down the register as a large one. Sorry Bina and anyone whose score didn't get them onto this large cert. Rework your application materials now and try again in 2010 or hope for another large cert before the register gets scrapped.
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Post by spirit on Apr 25, 2009 10:45:59 GMT -5
Although I admit to knowing very little about how the process actually works (my info is from the Board), I received a high sccore and did not make the cert because of my limited geographical preferences. So, I tend to believe it must be a combination of your sccore and locations chosen.
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