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Post by hurryupandwait on Jul 1, 2016 5:44:33 GMT -5
I finished the SJT/WS/EA on Monday. I thought the videos were a unique way of relaying the scenarios. Also it seemed that the questions were trying to determine if you would become a bit too aggressive or too passive in version situations. Having clerked for a trial judge for over 2 years early in my career, I've seen things and watched my judge handle it firmly and professionally. A great example.
I did purchase that ALJ Writing Guide, 2nd edition and was shocked that the WS advise to log out and work on the essay was wrong. Read the WS instructions and just kept typing on my essay until the last 45 seconds and submitted it. I just followed the EA format in the instructions. Folks OPM has so many applications to review, just make it easy for them. Made it pass phase 1 so hopefully works for phase 2 as well. Good luck everyone. Enjoy the Juky 4th holiday and the rest of the summer. Hope we have good news to share in the Fall.
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Post by christina on Jul 1, 2016 6:44:43 GMT -5
Re the writing sample, it's short. i would not sweat it. there is only so much anyone can do in that short frame of time.
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Post by Pixie on Jul 1, 2016 8:52:12 GMT -5
Many of these posts are getting close (over?) to the line on giving specifics about testing.
Careful how you tread. Pixie
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sobecharlie
New Member
Counsel . . . approach the bench
Posts: 7
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Post by sobecharlie on Jul 1, 2016 8:52:21 GMT -5
I finished the SJT/WS/EA on Monday. I thought the videos were a unique way of relaying the scenarios. Also it seemed that the questions were trying to determine if you would become a bit too aggressive or too passive in version situations. Having clerked for a trial judge for over 2 years early in my career, I've seen things and watched my judge handle it firmly and professionally. A great example. I did purchase that ALJ Writing Guide, 2nd edition and was shocked that the WS advise to log out and work on the essay was wrong. Read the WS instructions and just kept typing on my essay until the last 45 seconds and submitted it. I just followed the EA format in the instructions. Folks OPM has so many applications to review, just make it easy for them. Made it pass phase 1 so hopefully works for phase 2 as well. Good luck everyone. Enjoy the Juky 4th holiday and the rest of the summer. Hope we have good news to share in the Fall.
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sobecharlie
New Member
Counsel . . . approach the bench
Posts: 7
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Post by sobecharlie on Jul 1, 2016 8:57:07 GMT -5
Ugh tried to quote and comment on hurryupandwait but repeated only. Sigh. Anyhow, I appreciate the sentiment. The SJT seemed to require balance. The challenge is that it is balance according to OPM. I have tried not to give into the impulse to second-guess my answers. I was hoping that "brain purée" mode would do the trick, but one question in particular has leaked through. But it is done
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Post by Pixie on Jul 1, 2016 9:03:51 GMT -5
Ugh tried to quote and comment on hurryupandwait but repeated only. Sigh. Anyhow, I appreciate the sentiment. The SJT seemed to require balance. The challenge is that it is balance according to OPM. I have tried not to give into the impulse to second-guess my answers. I was hoping that "brain purée" mode would do the trick, but one question in particular has leaked through. But it is done To quote and comment in the same post, click on "Quote." The quoted text will pop up. Place your cursor on the line below the quoted text and type away. Pixie.
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Post by monday on Jul 1, 2016 9:13:01 GMT -5
They can ask for whatever they want, but I still find it silly to be quizzed about a set of circumstances that could only occur in a job that I don't want, haven't applied for, and almost certainly will never apply for. I'd rather be tested on my ability to be an ALJ with ODAR, but no one with any power asked me or ever will. I think you are missing the point. You are applying to be considered for an ALJ position with any agency that has ALJs; not just SSA.
I've got the point. I just disagree with it. I don't think it would be any kind of massive expense or time-suck to create agency-specific tests, but again, none of the higher-ups are asking lowly me.
On the issue of how many words on the writing sample, I wish I could remember how many words I had, but I think I stopped looking once I was beyond the required minimum. I doubt I went much beyond 400. I didn't have that many deep thoughts on the topic and didn't want to belabor the point too much.
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sobecharlie
New Member
Counsel . . . approach the bench
Posts: 7
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Post by sobecharlie on Jul 1, 2016 9:17:49 GMT -5
Ugh tried to quote and comment on hurryupandwait but repeated only. Sigh. Anyhow, I appreciate the sentiment. The SJT seemed to require balance. The challenge is that it is balance according to OPM. I have tried not to give into the impulse to second-guess my answers. I was hoping that "brain purée" mode would do the trick, but one question in particular has leaked through. But it is done To quote and comment in the same post, click on "Quote." The quoted text will pop up. Place your cursor on the line below the quoted text and type away. Pixie. Many thanks Pixie! I was beginning to annoy even myself with my knuckleheadedness
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Post by Quiet Thunder on Jul 1, 2016 10:26:31 GMT -5
So thankful for this board, the elders, and the "newbies" (like me, Class of 2016). I have enjoyed and benefited from reading the posts. Also, I lurk mostly because I find answers to my questions in previous posts and because I'm still learning the ropes in this forum.
That said, first, with respect to the issue of logging off and then logging back on to the Writing Sample in an attempt to "gain" an advantage, a potential ethical "violation" wasn't even on my mind until I started reading posts that suggested it. Rather, since I didn't know what to expect, my mindset was, "What if I log off and when I log back on, the question/challenge has changed? Then what? I'd have missed out on the opportunity to write about something I could really take a good/decent crack at." So, that dissuaded me from logging out.
Second, thanks to the experiences of others who'd gone before me, I was very mindful of being timed out and not completing the WS. So, once the clock started ticking, I started writing, without an outline, without an exact idea of what to write. I just started writing! It cost me precious minutes to first gather my thoughts about what I was going to write. But, my focus was on the competence being tested and that was what I wanted to demonstrate. I also set a timer to allow time for proofreading and I managed to complete the challenge with precious few seconds to go.
Again, I'm thankful for all the encouragement I've gotten from this board. And now that Step 2 is just about over, what shall we obsess about until Step 3 begins??? LOL.
Wishing the best of luck to all my running mates and a wonderful and safe holiday weekend to all.
Finally, on behalf of the 2016 herd of kittens... Meoooooow!!! 😸😹😹😹 Now back to lurking!👀
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Post by bayou on Jul 1, 2016 10:41:04 GMT -5
I think I have a different approach to the testing thus far than it seems many of you have stated/implied. None of these tests are designed to test one and only one competency. OPM is literally grading 12-15 competencies and will take parts of each of these components to come up with a grade for each competency. With the cross component grading of so many competencies, you can twist your brain in knots trying to figure out why they are asking this question and which competency it is grading.
I guess I'm just a dumb southern boy but I'm not going to do that. Trying to outsmart the test and the process seems like a recipe for a FOAD letter. Maybe I'm wrong but so be it. I'm just going to be me, take the test with a focus on answering the question and not try to peek behind the curtain on each question. Yes, a general big picture of the job for which we are applying and an understanding of the OPM competencies are important but at some point, you just have to hit the pitch.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 1, 2016 10:41:56 GMT -5
Welcome Thunder. Great post. Good luck in the process and keep posting now and then. I'm an outsider and don't understand all the intricacies of the process but I certainly learn quite a bit by reading all the posts. Keep the great attitude, you will need it to survive this process.😀
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Post by Gaidin on Jul 1, 2016 10:46:04 GMT -5
I think you are missing the point. You are applying to be considered for an ALJ position with any agency that has ALJs; not just SSA.
I've got the point. I just disagree with it. I don't think it would be any kind of massive expense or time-suck to create agency-specific tests, but again, none of the higher-ups are asking lowly me.
On the issue of how many words on the writing sample, I wish I could remember how many words I had, but I think I stopped looking once I was beyond the required minimum. I doubt I went much beyond 400. I didn't have that many deep thoughts on the topic and didn't want to belabor the point too much.
Then they would be AJs not ALJs and that would make all the difference.
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Post by onepingonly on Jul 1, 2016 10:55:36 GMT -5
I think you are missing the point. You are applying to be considered for an ALJ position with any agency that has ALJs; not just SSA.
I've got the point. I just disagree with it. I don't think it would be any kind of massive expense or time-suck to create agency-specific tests, but again, none of the higher-ups are asking lowly me.
On the issue of how many words on the writing sample, I wish I could remember how many words I had, but I think I stopped looking once I was beyond the required minimum. I doubt I went much beyond 400. I didn't have that many deep thoughts on the topic and didn't want to belabor the point too much.
It would, in fact, be a massive expense and time-suck to create agency-specific tests. It's like calling for just a little re-write of the Bill of Rights. It would literally require an act of Congress. To allow one agency to write its own test would open a Pandora's box of infighting between SSA and OPM, and every other agency that employs ALJs would clamor for a place at the table. The APA would need to be scrapped, since its purpose is to prevent agencies from dictating the terms (including the selection criteria) of the judges who judge those agencies. Every stakeholder would be lobbying Congress for its position -- representatives' bars seeking judges with even less agency influence, oil companies seeking relief from EPA regulations, big pharma angling for relaxation of regulations from the FDA (e.g., ALJ applicants must demonstrate five years' experience working for a major pharmaceutical company, no legal experience required), energy companies eager to get out from under FERC, EEO advocates pushing to make EEOC AJs be ALJs, and on and on. The litigation that would flow from any new statutes and regs would take decades to resolve. The APA itself is still hotly litigated all these decades later. See e.g. Perez v Mortgage Bankers and the recent Army Corps of Engineers decision. The scope of modern-day administrative law is staggering in its breadth and influence in daily life and mega-industries. The federal court system could not begin to keep up. The ALJ corps, with all its limitations, is a pressure valve calibrated through years of adjustments, compromises, negotiations, and litigation (at MSPB, in the federal courts, and elsewhere). ALJs are the front line of regulating the regulators of the biggest industrial and social structure in the history of the world. Their selection is a bigger deal than people realize. If you blow the valve, you'll never contain the fallout. Lastly, I'll add that any remotely qualified ALJ for ANY agency must be able to manage conflict in the courtroom, whether between adversarial attorneys or between any combination of attorneys, clients, lay witnesses, and expert witnesses (any of whom can lash out at one another and/or at the ALJ). In SSA hearings, which appear to be the focus, there's plenty of conflict -- people are losing their homes, dying of diseases, and claiming extreme mental problems, so, yeah, tensions can run high -- and the huge volume of cases leaves no room for taking forever to control the flow of hearings. Two lawyers going at it have nothing on certain reps going after a VE or an ME, or claimants throwing chairs at the judge.
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Post by southerngal on Jul 1, 2016 10:59:25 GMT -5
Need a little help please: I am working on the experience assessment at home today. I have written everything in the box except need to go get some citations from court records (downtown in Podunk City). I know the instructions said you can save your work but I don't remember how you do it. Afraid to go back to read instructions because my writing might be lost. I can redo it if necessary.
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Post by prescient on Jul 1, 2016 11:03:14 GMT -5
I've got the point. I just disagree with it. I don't think it would be any kind of massive expense or time-suck to create agency-specific tests, but again, none of the higher-ups are asking lowly me.
On the issue of how many words on the writing sample, I wish I could remember how many words I had, but I think I stopped looking once I was beyond the required minimum. I doubt I went much beyond 400. I didn't have that many deep thoughts on the topic and didn't want to belabor the point too much.
It would, in fact, be a massive expense and time-suck to create agency-specific tests. It's like calling for just a little re-write of the Bill of Rights. It would literally require an act of Congress. To allow one agency to write its own test would open a Pandora's box of infighting between SSA and OPM, and every other agency that employs ALJs would clamor for a place at the table. The APA would need to be scrapped, since its purpose is to prevent agencies from dictating the terms (including the selection criteria) of the judges who judge those agencies. Every stakeholder would be lobbying Congress for its position -- representatives' bars seeking judges with even less agency influence, oil companies seeking relief from EPA regulations, big pharma angling for relaxation of regulations from the FDA (e.g., ALJ applicants must demonstrate five years' experience working for a major pharmaceutical company, no legal experience required), energy companies eager to get out from under FERC, EEO advocates pushing to make EEOC AJs be ALJs, and on and on. The litigation that would flow from any new statutes and regs would take decades to resolve. The APA itself is still hotly litigated all these decades later. See e.g. Perez v Mortgage Bankers and the recent Army Corps of Engineers decision. The scope of modern-day administrative law is staggering in its breadth and influence in daily life and mega-industries. The federal court system could not begin to keep up. The ALJ corps, with all its limitations, is a pressure valve calibrated through years of adjustments, compromises, negotiations, and litigation (at MSPB, in the federal courts, and elsewhere). ALJs are the front line of regulating the regulators of the biggest industrial and social structure in the history of the world. Their selection is a bigger deal than people realize. If you blow the valve, you'll never contain the fallout. Lastly, I'll add that any remotely qualified ALJ for ANY agency must be able to manage conflict in the courtroom, whether between adversarial attorneys or between any combination of attorneys, clients, lay witnesses, and expert witnesses (any of whom can lash out at one another and/or at the ALJ). In SSA hearings, which appear to be the focus, there's plenty of conflict -- people are losing their homes, dying of diseases, and claiming extreme mental problems, so, yeah, tensions can run high -- and the huge volume of cases leaves no room for taking forever to control the flow of hearings. Two lawyers going at it have nothing on certain reps going after a VE or an ME, or claimants throwing chairs at the judge. totally disagree. they could easily, and essentially cost free include simple requirements to separate the registers. IE. for an SSA register, at step 1, in addition to the 7 years requirement, you would need to have a history of reviewing or working with medical records. boom. cost literally $0. as long as the registers are established and evaluated by OPM, I see no APA violation.
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Rose
Full Member
Posts: 79
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Post by Rose on Jul 1, 2016 11:06:09 GMT -5
Need a little help please: I am working on the experience assessment at home today. I have written everything in the box except need to go get some citations from court records (downtown in Podunk City). I know the instructions said you can save your work but I don't remember how you do it. Afraid to go back to read instructions because my writing might be lost. I can redo it if necessary. Just close the browser by x-ing out of the Internet Explorer or Google Chrome or Foxfire, whatever you're using. You can't call the clerk and ask her/him for info?
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Post by firehouse9 on Jul 1, 2016 11:12:54 GMT -5
In SSA hearings, which appear to be the focus, there's plenty of conflict -- people are losing their homes, dying of diseases, and claiming extreme mental problems, so, yeah, tensions can run high -- and the huge volume of cases leaves no room for taking forever to control the flow of hearings. Two lawyers going at it have nothing on certain reps going after a VE or an ME, or claimants throwing chairs at the judge. What are VEs and MEs?
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Post by foghorn on Jul 1, 2016 11:14:54 GMT -5
Need a little help please: I am working on the experience assessment at home today. I have written everything in the box except need to go get some citations from court records (downtown in Podunk City). I know the instructions said you can save your work but I don't remember how you do it. Afraid to go back to read instructions because my writing might be lost. I can redo it if necessary. There is a save button on the screen. It isn't called save but something like"preserve" Don't foget you can copy off the screen, paste it on your word page, so if heaven forfend that didn't work it's there anyay. You may find some court records online so before you charge out...... All the best.
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Post by foghorn on Jul 1, 2016 11:19:55 GMT -5
Prescient--still don't see the harm. At some point you have to make rulings on evidence. Whether they are raised by oponent, or it's implicit in the proffer. So not sure what the problem is, why the angst that I hear.
It's Judge Lee, isn't it. You really really like her and don't want anyone else to have her attention. Throw that into the story!
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Post by futurealj on Jul 1, 2016 11:21:02 GMT -5
In SSA hearings, which appear to be the focus, there's plenty of conflict -- people are losing their homes, dying of diseases, and claiming extreme mental problems, so, yeah, tensions can run high -- and the huge volume of cases leaves no room for taking forever to control the flow of hearings. Two lawyers going at it have nothing on certain reps going after a VE or an ME, or claimants throwing chairs at the judge. What are VEs and MEs? Vocational Expert and Medical Expert
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