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Post by kickstart on Aug 4, 2017 12:26:56 GMT -5
What is the feeling from those of you who have been on the list since 2014? They extended us one time through 2018, but will they keep doing that? I hate to tempt fate, so I never re-tested despite a lower score. But, I doubt they will keep extending us, and then that will give us a new score, if we make it, around the end of 2018.
I feel like re-testing is in the cards this time. I have been on about 10 certs and know people from my office with lower scores and the same cities that got hired. That seems like a 3-strike scenario to me. I keep using Ace as a beacon of hope, but I am also realistic.
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Post by gary on Aug 4, 2017 12:30:20 GMT -5
Those of you who just got scores this year can't retest on the coming refresh because they don't allow retaking the test if you got a final numerical rating within a year of (I believe) applying again.
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Post by gary on Aug 4, 2017 12:33:59 GMT -5
What is the feeling from those of you who have been on the list since 2014? They extended us one time through 2018, but will they keep doing that? I hate to tempt fate, so I never re-tested despite a lower score. But, I doubt they will keep extending us, and then that will give us a new score, if we make it, around the end of 2018. I feel like re-testing is in the cards this time. I have been on about 10 certs and know people from my office with lower scores and the same cities that got hired. That seems like a 3-strike scenario to me. I keep using Ace as a beacon of hope, but I am also realistic. They will extend it as often as they need the current register. There's a new test coming. I do not know exactly when it will be ready for them to administer. When it comes, everybody on the register will have to decide whether to reapply and try to stay in the running for an ALJ job or not. When the new testing is completed, this register will be terminated and a new one established. |
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Post by foghorn on Aug 4, 2017 12:36:31 GMT -5
Harsh! So much for the land of 2nd chances! Or can those who got a low NOR this year drop from the register and retake (pretty chancy) if they think their score condemns them to a multi year purgatory, always an interviewee, never ALJ?
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Post by basileia on Aug 4, 2017 12:41:23 GMT -5
After reading the press release, I, too, think it is a refresh and not a new exam. I am going to move these posts to the Reopening Existing Register thread. Pixie
Statement from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management Regarding the 2017 Administrative Law Judge Examination
Washington DC - The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is announcing it will open the Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) Examination to interested applicants in the near future by posting a job opportunity announcement on USAJOBS.
ALJs serve as impartial arbiters at regulatory and benefits-granting agencies. Individuals who are interested in applying are urged to monitor the USAJOBS website in the coming weeks. A notice will also be posted on the OPM ALJ website.
The ALJ examination involves a full review of applicant qualifications, including specific legal experience and bar status, and a multi-part assessment of relevant competencies, through the use of online, proctored and in-person assessments. Applicants who pass the preliminary qualification screening and proceed past an online assessment process will then be scheduled to participate in the proctored and in-person assessments in the Washington, DC, area.
By applying for the ALJ examination, applicants are essentially applying to be placed on a register (i.e., a list of eligibles), not for a specific job at a specific agency. The ALJ register is a list of applicants who are eligible for selection as an entry-level ALJ. It is used to make referrals, based on final scores and location choices, to agencies for employment consideration when they have entry level ALJ vacancies to fill. In order to be placed on the register, an applicant must meet the qualification requirements, successfully complete all components of the ALJ examination and receive a final numerical rating.
- end -
Note it speaks of the 2017 Examination, not the 2016-2017 examination. Then the second paragraph which talks about by doing this you are applying to be placed on the register. It says nothing about "existing applicants who are on the register...."
Sure looks like a whole new exam to me.
but what do I know....
The announcement for 2016, which was a refresh, appears to be identical. I think they just copy and paste: www.opm.gov/news/releases/2016/03/statement-from-the-us-office-of-personnel-management-regarding/ |
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Post by stevil on Aug 4, 2017 12:49:38 GMT -5
Let's not let this be discouraging! I got my NOR in spring 2016. By the Feb 2017 cert despite a score in the 60s I was on my 2nd cert. The register can dwindle quickly. I have not got hired yet but my GAL is limited. I have after many certs thought all hope was lost. And then another opportunity occurred. If you are on register you got a shot. Be happy. Remember the pool of hires is limited to us. Look forward to refresh for opportunity to change GAL. No offense, but you were in the lower scoring subgroup, so all of the scores for that "mini/kinda refresh" were lower overall than what you would expect from a whole new wave of applicants. That method would be far preferable for potential low scorers than a whole new refresh and a wave of hundreds of over 70 scores coming on to the register. This is not necessarily the case, as the lower scoring on-line sub group may not correlate with the lower scoring DC group! There were a lot of us in the lower scoring sub-group that killed it in DC compared to some original 2013 testers, otherwise we could not have achieved NOR scores that were in the top percentages even after adding in the original 2013 testers' scores to the mix.
Not doing well enough on the on-line portion does not equate to sub-par candidates, or really predict how those folks will do in DC. The whole process is designed to winnow folks out however they can, and I suspect we lost some of the best and most amazing candidates for some ridiculous and unlucky reasons along the way.
But this does raise the obvious issue we don't like to talk about much, which is that you are all in competition against each other for limited positions. This board is terrifically supportive of everyone, but make no mistake about it - there will be winners and losers by the end of the register.
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maine
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Post by maine on Aug 4, 2017 12:49:58 GMT -5
So to sum it up:
(1) if this means there is increased hiring this may be a good thing; or
(2) if hiring doesn't change this is a very bad thing for those of us on the register who haven't made a cert.
Did I get the basic take away correct?
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Post by robespierre on Aug 4, 2017 12:57:17 GMT -5
I'm lost. Are they:
1. Terminating the existing register and building a new one?
2. Testing new applicants so as to add them to the existing register if they get a NOR?
3. Inviting people who previously didn't get a NOR to test again?
4. Something else?
I don't think it's 3 or 4, but as between 1 and 2 I have no idea. If it were 1, presumably they would say something about terminating the existing register, but they don't. If it were 2, presumably they would mention that there is already an existing register, but they don't.
Classic.
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dwfl
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Post by dwfl on Aug 4, 2017 12:58:37 GMT -5
I think that the reopening is motivated by upcoming changes to OPM rather than concern over the qualifications of those interviewing in DC right now. Trump's pick for OPM Director will want to shake things up. federalnewsradio.com/opm/2017/05/trump-nominates-30-year-government-veteran-to-be-new-opm-director/It makes sense to take advantage of the current process now and load up the register because the selection process could change drastically. Testing could be revamped and shut down for years as a new OPM Director puts his stamp on the agency. A year ago, OPM wanted to put 1-4 year term limits on ALJs. I do not believe that a term limit change is likely, but I can see rational concern for upcoming differences at OPM. I assume SSA is behind the reopening, and I cannot blame the agency for wanting to hurry up and work with the devil it knows. |
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Post by rp on Aug 4, 2017 13:01:53 GMT -5
I think that the reopening is motivated by upcoming changes to OPM rather than concern over the qualifications of those interviewing in DC right now. Trump's pick for OPM Director will want to shake things up. federalnewsradio.com/opm/2017/05/trump-nominates-30-year-government-veteran-to-be-new-opm-director/It makes sense to take advantage of the current process now and load up the register because the selection process could change drastically. Testing could be revamped and shut down for years as a new OPM Director puts his stamp on the agency. A year ago, OPM wanted to put 1-4 year term limits on ALJs. I do not believe that a term limit change is likely, but I can see rational concern for upcoming differences at OPM. I assume SSA is behind the reopening, and I cannot blame the agency for wanting to hurry up and work with the devil it knows. Where you been? He withdrew. Your other points are well taken. OPM Nominee Withdraws |
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Aug 4, 2017 13:06:29 GMT -5
So to sum it up: (1) if this means there is increased hiring this may be a good thing; or (2) if hiring doesn't change this is a very bad thing for those of us on the register who haven't made a cert. Did I get the basic take away correct? 1 - YES! 2- We don't know and everyone is blowing up this thread speculating! Look worst case is they will at least maintain current numbers on ALJS - which while not a expansion pace of hiring - it is still a pretty regular pace for hiring. The very fact that they are opening up the test again to me signals that they anticipate hiring will continue to be robust. A few positives - those who want to change their GAL - either to expand or contract - will get the chance to make changes. And - It will take at least a year plus for new testers to make it on to the Register - so everyone needs to chill out. Happy Friday  |
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Post by neufenland on Aug 4, 2017 13:06:33 GMT -5
I'm lost. Are they: 1. Terminating the existing register and building a new one? 2. Testing new applicants so as to add them to the existing register if they get a NOR? 3. Inviting people who previously didn't get a NOR to test again? 4. Something else? I don't think it's 3 or 4, but as between 1 and 2 I have no idea. If it were 1, presumably they would say something about terminating the existing register, but they don't. If it were 2, presumably they would mention that there is already an existing register, but they don't. Classic. Pretty sure it's #2 (and #3, too, I guess, although anyone can apply). The idea of terminating the register after only just giving out NOR scores to last year's applicants doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially since those people with a score can't retest for another year. |
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dwfl
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Post by dwfl on Aug 4, 2017 13:06:54 GMT -5
I think that the reopening is motivated by upcoming changes to OPM rather than concern over the qualifications of those interviewing in DC right now. Trump's pick for OPM Director will want to shake things up. federalnewsradio.com/opm/2017/05/trump-nominates-30-year-government-veteran-to-be-new-opm-director/It makes sense to take advantage of the current process now and load up the register because the selection process could change drastically. Testing could be revamped and shut down for years as a new OPM Director puts his stamp on the agency. A year ago, OPM wanted to put 1-4 year term limits on ALJs. I do not believe that a term limit change is likely, but I can see rational concern for upcoming differences at OPM. I assume SSA is behind the reopening, and I cannot blame the agency for wanting to hurry up and work with the devil it knows. Where you been? He withdrew. Your other points are well taken. Oops. Never mind. OPM Nominee Withdraws |
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Post by gary on Aug 4, 2017 13:08:24 GMT -5
I'm lost. Are they: 1. Terminating the existing register and building a new one? 2. Testing new applicants so as to add them to the existing register if they get a NOR? 3. Inviting people who previously didn't get a NOR to test again? 4. Something else? I don't think it's 3 or 4, but as between 1 and 2 I have no idea. If it were 1, presumably they would say something about terminating the existing register, but they don't. If it were 2, presumably they would mention that there is already an existing register, but they don't. Classic. I believe it is 2. basileia posted this link to the corresponding 2016 OPM statement which appears to be identical and we know for a fact was for a refresh. www.opm.gov/news/releases/2016/03/statement-from-the-us-office-of-personnel-management-regarding/ |
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Post by robespierre on Aug 4, 2017 13:15:14 GMT -5
Yes, that is pretty compelling.
EDIT: But then why did you say a little while ago: "When the new testing is completed, this register will be terminated and a new one established."
Thanks. I may be confused. AM confused.
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Post by Peabody on Aug 4, 2017 13:18:25 GMT -5
I know this is stressful to those of us awaiting "the call," but some very knowledgeable folks have indicated this appears to be a refresh. I am going to just be thankful I'm on the register and 15 or more months should pass before anyone else is added to the register. While a new, revamped process may be in the offing, I think I will concentrate on the problems of the day and my interview next week rather than add to any mental turmoil by borrowing trouble about what may happen down the line!
I know that I've spent an unwarranted and unnecessary amount of time second guessing and worrying about this process. We are all attorneys, and from the thoughtful, intelligent posts all over this site, I think that OPM, SSA, OMHA, DOL, etc. all have an amazing pool of people in this hiring pool or future hiring pools. Let's all hang in there!
This Board has been invaluable in terms of education and camaraderie, even if I am generally just a spectator! Thanks to all for the education and speculation, and fingers crossed for the celebration(s) yet to come!
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Post by franperirose on Aug 4, 2017 13:22:02 GMT -5
Yes, that is pretty compelling. EDIT: But then why did you say a little while ago: "When the new testing is completed, this register will be terminated and a new one established." Thanks. I may be confused. AM confused. Not to speak for gary , but I believe what I understood is that they are working on creating an entirely new test and when that test is ready to be administered, they will terminate the current register and create a new one based upon the new test. eta: but as the new test is not ready, this reopening of application is only a refresh. |
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Post by gary on Aug 4, 2017 13:28:34 GMT -5
Yes, that is pretty compelling. EDIT: But then why did you say a little while ago: "When the new testing is completed, this register will be terminated and a new one established." Thanks. I may be confused. AM confused. Not to speak for gary , but I believe what I understood is that they are working on creating an entirely new test and when that test is ready to be administered, they will terminate the current register and create a new one based upon the new test. eta: but as the new test is not ready, this reopening of application is only a refresh. This is my understanding of where things stand. I mentioned the new test because someone was trying to decide whether to sit tight with their current score or retake the exam. I thought the coming of a new test might be relevant to the person's deliberations. |
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Post by msp on Aug 4, 2017 13:29:30 GMT -5
Yes, that is pretty compelling. EDIT: But then why did you say a little while ago: "When the new testing is completed, this register will be terminated and a new one established." Thanks. I may be confused. AM confused. Not to speak for gary , but I believe what I understood is that they are working on creating an entirely new test and when that test is ready to be administered, they will terminate the current register and create a new one based upon the new test. eta: but as the new test is not ready, this reopening of application is only a refresh. Agreed. IIRC, there was a JOA several months ago for psychologists (I believe) to aid in the review of the current testing procedures and development of new/updated procedures. Reading old threads on this board, I seem to recall that when the current testing process was instituted, it was the result of a few years of work. That would seem, to me, to put this refresh inline with adding to the existing register while a newer/better/faster/stronger testing procedure is being developed for use around 2020-ish. |
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Post by robespierre on Aug 4, 2017 13:42:13 GMT -5
OK, thanks Gary and everyone else. So it's another refresh. With a whole new test and register on the distant horizon.
The refresh is bad news for all of us on the existing register. No two ways about it. More competition for a finite pool of jobs. And it's the hardest on those without stellar NORs.
But there are some small silver linings from the refresh, as others have already pointed out. (It's an indication of significant hiring to come; it will probably include an opportunity to adjust GALs; and it'll take a while to happen, with certs in the meantime.)
The new test and register ... that, I can't even absorb right now. I'm not sure I'll have the will to start from scratch in a year or two's time. (I'm a 2013 holdover.)
On we go. Never a dull moment with this stuff.
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