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Post by montyburns on Aug 4, 2017 13:53:45 GMT -5
No offense, but you were in the lower scoring subgroup, so all of the scores for that "mini/kinda refresh" were lower overall than what you would expect from a whole new wave of applicants. That method would be far preferable for potential low scorers than a whole new refresh and a wave of hundreds of over 70 scores coming on to the register. This is not necessarily the case, as the lower scoring on-line sub group may not correlate with the lower scoring DC group! There were a lot of us in the lower scoring sub-group that killed it in DC compared to some original 2013 testers, otherwise we could not have achieved NOR scores that were in the top percentages even after adding in the original 2013 testers' scores to the mix.
Not doing well enough on the on-line portion does not equate to sub-par candidates, or really predict how those folks will do in DC. The whole process is designed to winnow folks out however they can, and I suspect we lost some of the best and most amazing candidates for some ridiculous and unlucky reasons along the way.
But this does raise the obvious issue we don't like to talk about much, which is that you are all in competition against each other for limited positions. This board is terrifically supportive of everyone, but make no mistake about it - there will be winners and losers by the end of the register.
Very valid point regarding the scoring process. |
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Post by montyburns on Aug 4, 2017 14:24:31 GMT -5
Not to speak for gary , but I believe what I understood is that they are working on creating an entirely new test and when that test is ready to be administered, they will terminate the current register and create a new one based upon the new test. eta: but as the new test is not ready, this reopening of application is only a refresh. This is my understanding of where things stand. I mentioned the new test because someone was trying to decide whether to sit tight with their current score or retake the exam. I thought the coming of a new test might be relevant to the person's deliberations. I'm super non-plussed about the prospect of a new test being done, at some indeterminate-yet-inevitable time in the future. Though given my track record, I could only benefit from an entirely new exam process. But Murphys Law being what it is, I'm certain to make the register the month they annonunce they will scrap it. |
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Post by BigTexBurnin' on Aug 4, 2017 14:45:01 GMT -5
This thread has been an outstanding resource to help me better understand the process. Thank you to everyone who has contributed!
Now, can someone please point me in the direction of information on what a Highly Recommended candidate would look like in the eyes of the SSA? I'm curious about things like if they even see the NOR score, and if so, are they short-sighted enough to use that to truly evaluate a candidate's ability to perform the job (still the wife posting here!)?
As an English prof, I know better than to ever judge a student on one test given on one day, if that makes sense. If they know about the scores, do they know about the 10 point bump for some (which I'm not dissing)? Does having many years experience as a prosecutor in a government agency help? Does winning huge cases come in to play?
What about managerial experience within that agency? You can tell I'm an educator by all the questions!! Sorry! I'm sure there's a thread somewhere with all of this info, but I'm not really sure what I'm looking at in many of those.
Thanks to anyone willing to help! Once my husband is finished with this trial, he'll read all of this, too. And I may be in trouble for posting under his "name." :-)
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Aug 4, 2017 15:15:59 GMT -5
This thread has been an outstanding resource to help me better understand the process. Thank you to everyone who has contributed! Now, can someone please point me in the direction of information on what a Highly Recommended candidate would look like in the eyes of the SSA? I'm curious about things like if they even see the NOR score, and if so, are they short-sighted enough to use that to truly evaluate a candidate's ability to perform the job (still the wife posting here!)? As an English prof, I know better than to ever judge a student on one test given on one day, if that makes sense. If they know about the scores, do they know about the 10 point bump for some (which I'm not dissing)? Does having many years experience as a prosecutor in a government agency help? Does winning huge cases come in to play? What about managerial experience within that agency? You can tell I'm an educator by all the questions!! Sorry! I'm sure there's a thread somewhere with all of this info, but I'm not really sure what I'm looking at in many of those. Thanks to anyone willing to help! Once my husband is finished with this trial, he'll read all of this, too. And I may be in trouble for posting under his "name." :-) No one will give any information about the subject and the manner of the interviews as there is a strict confidentiality code that folks must sign. Also I do not believe anyone really has intell on how SSA scores the interviews. Generally speaking - it is a panel interview. |
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Post by roymcavoy on Aug 4, 2017 15:20:44 GMT -5
With all due deference, as I look at the release and it's wording and phrasing, it looks like a new exam:
Statement from the U.S. Office of Personnel Management Regarding the 2017 Administrative Law Judge Examination
Washington DC - The U.S. Office of Personnel Management (OPM) is announcing it will open the Administrative Law Judge (ALJ) Examination to interested applicants in the near future by posting a job opportunity announcement on USAJOBS.
ALJs serve as impartial arbiters at regulatory and benefits-granting agencies. Individuals who are interested in applying are urged to monitor the USAJOBS website in the coming weeks. A notice will also be posted on the OPM ALJ website.
The ALJ examination involves a full review of applicant qualifications, including specific legal experience and bar status, and a multi-part assessment of relevant competencies, through the use of online, proctored and in-person assessments. Applicants who pass the preliminary qualification screening and proceed past an online assessment process will then be scheduled to participate in the proctored and in-person assessments in the Washington, DC, area.
By applying for the ALJ examination, applicants are essentially applying to be placed on a register (i.e., a list of eligibles), not for a specific job at a specific agency. The ALJ register is a list of applicants who are eligible for selection as an entry-level ALJ. It is used to make referrals, based on final scores and location choices, to agencies for employment consideration when they have entry level ALJ vacancies to fill. In order to be placed on the register, an applicant must meet the qualification requirements, successfully complete all components of the ALJ examination and receive a final numerical rating.
- end -
Note it speaks of the 2017 Examination, not the 2016-2017 examination. Then the second paragraph which talks about by doing this you are applying to be placed on the register. It says nothing about "existing applicants who are on the register...."
Sure looks like a whole new exam to me.
but what do I know....
The announcement for 2016, which was a refresh, appears to be identical. I think they just copy and paste: www.opm.gov/news/releases/2016/03/statement-from-the-us-office-of-personnel-management-regarding/So I emailed myself the text of the March 2016 notice from OPM when it came out. It is not word-for-word the same as the one archived on the OPM site... the one on the OPM archives for March 4, 2016, is exactly the same as the August 3, 2017 notice. However, the March 4, 2016, version that I emailed myself included another sentence at the end of the first paragraph. It states, "Please check the USAJOBS website regularly as application forms and filing instructions are not available in advance but will be included in the ALJ announcement when it is posted." I don't know that it means anything other than they have since removed it from the notice. But it does have a pending quality that the newer one does not have. Edit to add that just looked back at the 2013 notice and it specifically stated that a new test was being administered and noting that the old register was being ended. So this notice is clearly different from that one. |
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Post by rp on Aug 4, 2017 15:42:25 GMT -5
OK, thanks Gary and everyone else. So it's another refresh. With a whole new test and register on the distant horizon. The refresh is bad news for all of us on the existing register. No two ways about it. More competition for a finite pool of jobs. And it's the hardest on those without stellar NORs. But there are some small silver linings from the refresh, as others have already pointed out. (It's an indication of significant hiring to come; it will probably include an opportunity to adjust GALs; and it'll take a while to happen, with certs in the meantime.) The new test and register ... that, I can't even absorb right now. I'm not sure I'll have the will to start from scratch in a year or two's time. (I'm a 2013 holdover.) On we go. Never a dull moment with this stuff. I don't think it is bad news for sure at this point. Remember this...by my count, it took approximately 17 months for the folks from the last refresh (me, for one) to get to the point where jobs were being offered to those on the refreshed register (assuming offers go out in September 2017). I calculated this from April 2016 to September 2017. Based on this -- let's say they open up another JOA on November 1, 2017 - that means April 2019 would be when the newly refreshed register would have folks getting job offers. And even if we are only counting from application to refreshed register we would looking around January 2019 before new folks were on the refreshed register. I think we can safely assume hiring will continue during that time, although we have no idea how many will be hired during that time. The point is: The sky is not necessarily falling yet. We just don't have enough information to make fully informed predictions -- but my WAG is that it will take a while and folks WILL be hired off this register between now and then. |
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Post by 71stretch on Aug 4, 2017 15:47:50 GMT -5
I'm actually very surprised they are planning (and have likely internally scheduled) another refresh before one person has been hired from the last one. It's never happened quite this fast before. Either they don't have as many who got through this last time as they hoped, and/or have a ton of appeals, and it's easier to just open up the process again, which will likely end the vast majority of the appeals. They are likely also thinking that they need a fairly large register to hire from while they go through the lengthy process of developing, and then testing under, a new testing process. Only when that process is concluded (which could be in the two plus year range) will the existing register be terminated.
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Post by acttwo on Aug 4, 2017 16:10:17 GMT -5
I can't even process this all....After the shocking disappointment of failing the WD, I cringe to think of starting all over. We'll see, we'll see aa7, I feel you, but just chatted to some friends who tell me to go for it. I have a thicker hide and a better sense of what I am getting into. And, oh, yes, I am just crazy enough to still believe. Ya gotta be in it to win it. |
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Post by BigTexBurnin' on Aug 4, 2017 16:32:14 GMT -5
Thank you! That makes perfect sense. Time to go back into the shadows before the spouse discovers that he has made 25 new posts. Wishing the best of luck to all!
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Post by christina on Aug 4, 2017 18:21:04 GMT -5
I am unclear what reopening the existing register means for me and what i should do. I just got on the register with a score of 72 but did not make any certs. I have been hoping i would have the opportunity to expand my gal - right now i have about 50 cities and if given the opportunity i would check every city listed. So does this news mean for sure we will get to expand our gal's? Also, does it make sense to take the exam again with a current score of 72? What if i didn't even make it to dc testing this time around? Would i still get to stay on register for a while with my current score? Thanks so much for everyone's advice, on all the issues that come up in this process. You should make next cert. I'd sit tight with a 72. Expand gal |
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Post by christina on Aug 4, 2017 18:28:15 GMT -5
By request! fowlfinder Should I retest or keep my score now? El indecesiso mi molesta. Ain't that the truth? This indecision bothers me(that's the clash singing, not me murmuring). I'd prefer to add new faces later rather than sooner but que Sera sera. |
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Post by aljwishhope on Aug 4, 2017 19:06:38 GMT -5
I am unclear what reopening the existing register means for me and what i should do. I just got on the register with a score of 72 but did not make any certs. I have been hoping i would have the opportunity to expand my gal - right now i have about 50 cities and if given the opportunity i would check every city listed. So does this news mean for sure we will get to expand our gal's? Also, does it make sense to take the exam again with a current score of 72? What if i didn't even make it to dc testing this time around? Would i still get to stay on register for a while with my current score? Thanks so much for everyone's advice, on all the issues that come up in this process. You should make next cert. I'd sit tight with a 72. Expand gal ditto hang tight with 72 as that is good score. Also there is no guarantee that because of fluke you would not be thrown out at step one. |
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Post by gary on Aug 4, 2017 19:16:05 GMT -5
I have confirmation from someone in an excellent position to know that this is definitely the old exam, so it's definitely a refresh. Just like we figured.
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Post by worrywart on Aug 4, 2017 21:18:28 GMT -5
What if you took the test in DC but did not make the register, are you able to take the upcoming test if a year has not passed?
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Post by gary on Aug 4, 2017 21:23:48 GMT -5
What if you took the test in DC but did not make the register, are you able to take the upcoming test if a year has not passed? If you got a score, no. If you did not get a score, yes. |
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Post by Renee98 on Aug 4, 2017 21:47:52 GMT -5
I am unclear what reopening the existing register means for me and what i should do. I just got on the register with a score of 72 but did not make any certs. I have been hoping i would have the opportunity to expand my gal - right now i have about 50 cities and if given the opportunity i would check every city listed. So does this news mean for sure we will get to expand our gal's? Also, does it make sense to take the exam again with a current score of 72? What if i didn't even make it to dc testing this time around? Would i still get to stay on register for a while with my current score? Thanks so much for everyone's advice, on all the issues that come up in this process. You should make next cert. I'd sit tight with a 72. Expand gal Plus I dont think you're able to retest anyway if you just got your score. You have to wait a year. I'm sure someone will correct me if this rule has changed. So in saying that, it looks like your decision just got a whole lot easier buckeyefan |
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Post by lucy on Aug 4, 2017 22:17:18 GMT -5
What if you took the test in DC but did not make the register, are you able to take the upcoming test if a year has not passed? Yes |
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Post by acttwo on Aug 5, 2017 0:01:40 GMT -5
You know, I think we need some greendog wisdom to make sense of this. With GreenDog, Gary, Christina, bayou, and the Goddess Pixie, much wisdom can be gleaned . And many other legends and elders. Papa judge, ace midnight and judge ratty are a few examples. A whole new move. Well played, OPM, well played, but it will take more than this to trip us up! |
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Post by gary on Aug 5, 2017 0:21:18 GMT -5
You know, I think we need some greendog wisdom to make sense of this. With GreenDog, Gary, Christina, bayou, and the Goddess Pixie, much wisdom can be gleaned . And many other legends and elders. Papa judge, ace midnight and judge ratty are a few examples. A whole new move. Well played, OPM, well played, but it will take more than this to trip us up! How fleeting is Board fame. You didn't even mention the great funkyodar, the man of a thousand sources. |
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Post by acttwo on Aug 5, 2017 0:24:41 GMT -5
D'oh!!! I knew I hit post prematurely! funkyodar, I beg your forgiveness, it was oversight, not intentional! |
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