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Post by bayou on Feb 22, 2018 14:13:39 GMT -5
In the left column, perhaps the three mentions of ODAR could be updated to OHO. What was the date ODAR became HOHO? 25 December seems appropriate. ETA: fowlfinder beat me to it. |
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Post by ssa on Jun 22, 2018 9:42:57 GMT -5
JudgeKnot , given the later scheduled testing this round, can you update this chart to show testing through 6/20? Thanks! ETA: And approx 1,375 DC testers for 2017, too. Thanks again!
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Post by JudgeKnot on Jun 22, 2018 9:51:05 GMT -5
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Post by greyhound on Jun 25, 2018 10:52:35 GMT -5
WAG on the status changes and the NOR release: July 20 and August 5.
Based on the following:
1. The grading of interviews should pretty much be completed the same day they are taken.
2. The grading of the logic test should be done by a computer and take very little time.
3. The main delay between the Last Day of Testing (LDT) and the release of NORs likely involves the grading of the written demonstration and some kind of final numbers review.
4. The number of 2017 app testers was only 65% of the number of 2016 app testers.
5. The graders for the 2016 app had not done the process for a while.
6. There is a learning curve involved in grading the written demonstration.
7. The 2017 app graders, who we will assume are essentially the same personnel as last year, are more efficient at their work than they were in 2016 (due to gap between the 2017 and 2016 tests being shorter than the gap between the 2016 test and the previous test)
8. Whereby, we can expect that the 62 days between the LDT and the Status Change and the 81 days between the LDT and the NOR release date should be reduced to less than 65% of the 2016 app gap. So, we are looking at the status change posting in fewer than 40 days and the NORs being released in fewer than 52 days.
9. Therefor, based on the 65% reduction, we should see status changes by July 30 and NORs released by August 11, but including increased efficiencies, it should be an even shorter period.
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Post by jimmyjiggles on Jun 25, 2018 11:11:16 GMT -5
WAG on the status changes and the NOR release: July 20 and August 5. Based on the following: 1. The grading of interviews should pretty much be completed the same day they are taken. 2. The grading of the logic test should be done by a computer and take very little time. 3. The main delay between the Last Day of Testing (LDT) and the release of NORs likely involves the grading of the written demonstration and some kind of final numbers review. 4. The number of 2017 app testers was only 65% of the number of 2016 app testers. 5. The graders for the 2016 app had not done the process for a while. 6. There is a learning curve involved in grading the written demonstration. 7. The 2017 app graders, who we will assume are essentially the same personnel as last year, are more efficient at their work than they were in 2016 (due to gap between the 2017 and 2016 tests being shorter than the gap between the 2016 test and the previous test) 8. Whereby, we can expect that the 62 days between the LDT and the Status Change and the 81 days between the LDT and the NOR release date should be reduced to less than 65% of the 2016 app gap. So, we are looking at the status change posting in fewer than 40 days and the NORs being released in fewer than 52 days. 9. Therefor, based on the 65% reduction, we should see status changes by July 30 and NORs released by August 11, but including increased efficiencies, it should be an even shorter period. I’ll buy that for a dollar. However, if I recall correctly there was a USAJOB posting for ALJ exam graders. It is a temp job and pays like 15/hour. So I don’t think I would put much faith in thinking the same people will be grading the exam, or that the current graders have ever done this before. |
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Post by JudgeKnot on Jun 25, 2018 11:48:56 GMT -5
"I’ll buy that for a dollar. However, if I recall correctly there was a USAJOB posting for ALJ exam graders. It is a temp job and pays like 15/hour. So I don’t think I would put much faith in thinking the same people will be grading the exam, or that the current graders have ever done this before."
Think about that. Random people are being hired for a temp job in the DC area that pays $15 per hour to grade exams. Are these the people who are grading written demonstrations? What are the required qualifications? Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but question how consistent the grading would be. In another life, I did document review with other licensed attorneys, and it's surprising how inconsistent opinions can be among professionals whether a document is "responsive" to an issue or not, and whether it's privileged or not. I've suspected there's a degree of arbitrariness in the selection process. The thought that they can find well-qualified temp employees in DC, for $15 an hour in today's job market, to grade these tests just doesn't strike me as being even remotely likely to result in consistent and valid results.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 25, 2018 12:02:38 GMT -5
"I’ll buy that for a dollar. However, if I recall correctly there was a USAJOB posting for ALJ exam graders. It is a temp job and pays like 15/hour. So I don’t think I would put much faith in thinking the same people will be grading the exam, or that the current graders have ever done this before." Think about that. Random people are being hired for a temp job in the DC area that pays $15 per hour to grade exams. Are these the people who are grading written demonstrations? What are the required qualifications? Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but question how consistent the grading would be. In another life, I did document review with other licensed attorneys, and it's surprising how inconsistent opinions can be among professionals whether a document is "responsive" to an issue or not, and whether it's privileged or not. I've suspected there's a degree of arbitrariness in the selection process. The thought that they can find well-qualified temp employees in DC, for $15 an hour in today's job market, to grade these tests just doesn't strike me as being even remotely likely to result in consistent and valid results. This made me a little sick to my stomach. The idea that who-knows is scoring my written work. But it’s the same with the bar, I guess. |
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Post by SPN Lifer on Jun 25, 2018 12:21:07 GMT -5
Oh! So that’s how I passed. 😀
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Post by gary on Jun 25, 2018 12:43:51 GMT -5
"I’ll buy that for a dollar. However, if I recall correctly there was a USAJOB posting for ALJ exam graders. It is a temp job and pays like 15/hour. So I don’t think I would put much faith in thinking the same people will be grading the exam, or that the current graders have ever done this before." Think about that. Random people are being hired for a temp job in the DC area that pays $15 per hour to grade exams. Are these the people who are grading written demonstrations? What are the required qualifications? Maybe it's just me, but I can't help but question how consistent the grading would be. In another life, I did document review with other licensed attorneys, and it's surprising how inconsistent opinions can be among professionals whether a document is "responsive" to an issue or not, and whether it's privileged or not. I've suspected there's a degree of arbitrariness in the selection process. The thought that they can find well-qualified temp employees in DC, for $15 an hour in today's job market, to grade these tests just doesn't strike me as being even remotely likely to result in consistent and valid results. This made me a little sick to my stomach. The idea that who-knows is scoring my written work. But it’s the same with the bar, I guess. Wow, we’ve sure jumped to a conclusion here! Maybe it’s different in Illinois, but way back when I was told by someone in the know that lawyers graded our bar exams. The Board intel in the past was that a retired ALJ or retired ALJs graded the WDs. But don’t let me rain on a fully jumped to conclusion. |
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Post by JudgeKnot on Jun 25, 2018 12:57:11 GMT -5
gary my comment was predicated upon the previous post that the temp jobs were posted on USA Jobs. If the previous post is inaccurate, and if the tests are graded by retired ALJs instead of $15 temps, then all is good. Normally, I disagreeumption is that posts here don't need to be fact-checked. I hope someone has the time to either find the job posting to confirm or deny, or they can find some explanation about who grades the tests.
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Post by christina on Jun 25, 2018 13:00:51 GMT -5
Well the grading may be for the rest of the exam. I’m also under impression retired aljs grade the wd section:
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Post by christina on Jun 25, 2018 13:01:34 GMT -5
Oh! So that’s how I passed. 😀 [ Yes lucky 🍀 us. Phew 😅 |
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Post by Prrple on Jun 25, 2018 13:03:31 GMT -5
Yes, and length of time for notice of results after end of in person testing has been about the same for 10-Point vet groups as for bigger groups
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Post by Pixie on Jun 25, 2018 13:04:37 GMT -5
Retired ALJs have graded in the past; I have no reason to believe this has changed. Pixie
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Post by gazoo on Jun 25, 2018 13:18:59 GMT -5
I could see temps being used to input scores or perform other admin tasks. Could explain last year’s “everyone is ‘complete’” debacle.
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Post by acttwo on Jun 25, 2018 13:54:29 GMT -5
This made me a little sick to my stomach. The idea that who-knows is scoring my written work. But it’s the same with the bar, I guess. Wow, we’ve sure jumped to a conclusion here! Maybe it’s different in Illinois, but way back when I was told by someone in the know that lawyers graded our bar exams.The Board intel in the past was that a retired ALJ or retired ALJs graded the WDs. But don’t let me rain on a fully jumped to conclusion. Yup. And do you remember that you had to have a one on one appointment with a licensed attorney who would assess your moral character and fitness to be a member of the Illinois Bar? I was in Lake County at the time, so was able to have a lovely solo practitioner who chatted with me for quite a while and still said I was okay! |
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Post by gary on Jun 25, 2018 13:58:02 GMT -5
Wow, we’ve sure jumped to a conclusion here! Maybe it’s different in Illinois, but way back when I was told by someone in the know that lawyers graded our bar exams.The Board intel in the past was that a retired ALJ or retired ALJs graded the WDs. But don’t let me rain on a fully jumped to conclusion. Yup. And do you remember that you had to have a one on one appointment with a licensed attorney who would assess your moral character and fitness to be a member of the Illinois Bar? I was in Lake County at the time, so was able to have a lovely solo practitioner who chatted with me for quite a while and still said I was okay! I’m not sure they had enough licensed attorneys whose judgment on “character and fitness” I would respect. |
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Post by jimmyjiggles on Jun 25, 2018 14:28:53 GMT -5
I could see temps being used to input scores or perform other admin tasks. Could explain last year’s “everyone is ‘complete’” debacle. Yeah I’ll find the link somewhere, but I’m not making it up. I remember very clearly it was gs-4. They could be inputting scantrons for all I know. They also hired new HR people for the ALJ exam on a term basis. Those were posted before the 2017 exam reopened. Anyway my point was simply that the same people that graded the last exam are not necessarily grading this exam. I trust the grading process has become more efficient, but I don’t think that the personnel are necessarily any more experienced. |
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Post by jimmyjiggles on Jun 25, 2018 14:31:58 GMT -5
Yup. And do you remember that you had to have a one on one appointment with a licensed attorney who would assess your moral character and fitness to be a member of the Illinois Bar? I was in Lake County at the time, so was able to have a lovely solo practitioner who chatted with me for quite a while and still said I was okay! I’m not sure they had enough licensed attorneys whose judgment on “character and fitness” I would respect. Oh yeah I remember the one on one to assess fitness and character. Worst. Hangover. Ever. |
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Post by jimmyjiggles on Jun 25, 2018 14:37:27 GMT -5
gary my comment was predicated upon the previous post that the temp jobs were posted on USA Jobs. If the previous post is inaccurate, and if the tests are graded by retired ALJs instead of $15 temps, then all is good. Normally, I disagreeumption is that posts here don't need to be fact-checked. I hope someone has the time to either find the job posting to confirm or deny, or they can find some explanation about who grades the tests. I’ll find it when I get to a real computer. I can’t recall what the exact job title was. “Grader” is my term (I think), so I can’t tell you what exactly they were doing, but I am very sure it was a gs 4 job. So don’t abandon all hope yet. |
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