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Post by tripper on Jan 19, 2018 11:49:46 GMT -5
Yes, I am very concerned about telework too. Anyone know?
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Post by foghorn on Jan 19, 2018 11:54:17 GMT -5
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Post by stevil on Jan 19, 2018 12:02:35 GMT -5
I've been through numerous shutdowns, threats of shutdowns, and even a furlough, but have yet to see a more ridiculous reason to shut down government than what is happening now. Never thought I'd see the day when concerns over illegal aliens were deemed more important than that of citizens or the U.S. military.
The good news is that I hear we are going to be called "excepted" and "non-excepted" this time around. Apparently the terms "essential" and "non-essential" hurt folks' feelings! I'm hoping our teams are excepted, as my legal assistants can ill afford to be without a source of income for very long. The fact we will probably get paid later does not pay the bills in the meantime.
Shame on our government for failing in even their most basic reason for existence!
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Post by christina on Jan 19, 2018 12:08:40 GMT -5
re telework, yes, i think telework was allowed in the past.
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Post by Maria C. on Jan 19, 2018 12:22:45 GMT -5
No e-mail received yet. Does anyone recall whether you can telework during a shutdown? I'm suspecting that we would be required to show up in the office, but I can't recall what happened last time round. in 2013 we reported for four hours to perform “shut down tasks, i.e. making phone calls, changing our voicemail response” and then were sent home. We could not take our Agency laptops or cell phone with us as all but one individual in my office was determined “non essential” |
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Post by tripper on Jan 19, 2018 12:26:46 GMT -5
No e-mail received yet. Does anyone recall whether you can telework during a shutdown? I'm suspecting that we would be required to show up in the office, but I can't recall what happened last time round. in 2013 we reported for four hours to perform “shut down tasks, i.e. making phone calls, changing our voicemail response” and then were sent home. We could not take our Agency laptops or cell phone with us as all but one individual in my office was determined “non essential” I thought that ALJs were deemed essential from the start? |
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joy
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Post by joy on Jan 19, 2018 12:29:12 GMT -5
Unless you are deemed essential personnel, you would not be allowed to telework as that would bind the government to a payment without authority. At my agency, we've been informed that if the government shuts down, we will go to work on Monday to perform not more than 4 hours of shutdown services (eg moving the court to stay your active litigation during the shutdown). Until a budget or CR is passed, non-essential personnel are furloughed.
In 2013, some attorneys chose to work anyway and were disciplined for it.
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Post by foghorn on Jan 19, 2018 12:43:00 GMT -5
I've been through numerous shutdowns, threats of shutdowns, and even a furlough, but have yet to see a more ridiculous reason to shut down government than what is happening now. Never thought I'd see the day when concerns over illegal aliens were deemed more important than that of citizens or the U.S. military. The good news is that I hear we are going to be called "excepted" and "non-excepted" this time around. Apparently the terms "essential" and "non-essential" hurt folks' feelings! I'm hoping our teams are excepted, as my legal assistants can ill afford to be without a source of income for very long. The fact we will probably get paid later does not pay the bills in the meantime. Shame on our government for failing in even their most basic reason for existence! As the DACA kids were kids when brought over I would view them as improperly papered. Given that to be daca you have to have graduated, been generally not a threat, etc. They are, taken as a whole, likely to be better qualified to participate in the economy than our citizens. If you look at last night's discussions, the hold up isn't the DACA but the requirement someone has for a wall. That's from Mitch, not from Schumer. (to those who'd day "but there's 800,000" I say we let in Cubans of all stripes, some of them fresh out of the Cuban Jails, and they never got vetting or any of the snorting disapproval these kids get.) At this point it's posturing. As I've noted before also likely is male tusk bashing. Would it happen with women leading both sides? Something tells me not as much. |
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Post by christina on Jan 19, 2018 12:48:18 GMT -5
in 2013 we reported for four hours to perform “shut down tasks, i.e. making phone calls, changing our voicemail response” and then were sent home. We could not take our Agency laptops or cell phone with us as all but one individual in my office was determined “non essential” I thought that ALJs were deemed essential from the start? yes, that is correct. most of the rest of staff was not essentially initial but we reported back within a week. it seems like with changes made to contingency plans since October 2013, most of oho field staff is now considered essential or whatever the new term is. i am not basing this on current info but on emails we got in the past on contingency plans. I assume i am working Monday unless i hear different by the end of the day. To the best of my memory, when i was ordered to return back to work in 2013, i was allowed to telework. i do not remember judges being prevented from doing do. however, since their main duty at least initially during the 2013 furlough was to hold hearings, if that stays the same, that could affect telework. |
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Post by harp on Jan 19, 2018 13:13:41 GMT -5
re telework, yes, i think telework was allowed in the past. It better be. If I have to wear real pants any extra days, I will LIGHT THINGS ON FIRE. |
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Post by Pixie on Jan 19, 2018 13:15:47 GMT -5
I thought that ALJs were deemed essential from the start? yes, that is correct. most of the rest of staff was not essentially initial but we reported back within a week. it seems like with changes made to contingency plans since October 2013, most of oho field staff is now considered essential or whatever the new term is. i am not basing this on current info but on emails we got in the past on contingency plans. I assume i am working Monday unless i hear different by the end of the day. To the best of my memory, when i was ordered to return back to work in 2013, i was allowed to telework. i do not remember judges being prevented from doing do. however, since their main duty at least initially during the 2013 furlough was to hold hearings, if that stays the same, that could affect telework. What TPTB don't seem to fully grasp is that we can't hold hearings without preparing for those hearings. Hearing preparation can be done as well by telework as in the office. Pixie |
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Post by tripper on Jan 19, 2018 13:19:45 GMT -5
And it's not as if I can hold extra hearings if I come into the office on my telework days.
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Post by stevil on Jan 19, 2018 14:30:23 GMT -5
I've been through numerous shutdowns, threats of shutdowns, and even a furlough, but have yet to see a more ridiculous reason to shut down government than what is happening now. Never thought I'd see the day when concerns over illegal aliens were deemed more important than that of citizens or the U.S. military. The good news is that I hear we are going to be called "excepted" and "non-excepted" this time around. Apparently the terms "essential" and "non-essential" hurt folks' feelings! I'm hoping our teams are excepted, as my legal assistants can ill afford to be without a source of income for very long. The fact we will probably get paid later does not pay the bills in the meantime. Shame on our government for failing in even their most basic reason for existence! As the DACA kids were kids when brought over I would view them as improperly papered. Given that to be daca you have to have graduated, been generally not a threat, etc. They are, taken as a whole, likely to be better qualified to participate in the economy than our citizens. If you look at last night's discussions, the hold up isn't the DACA but the requirement someone has for a wall. That's from Mitch, not from Schumer. (to those who'd day "but there's 800,000" I say we let in Cubans of all stripes, some of them fresh out of the Cuban Jails, and they never got vetting or any of the snorting disapproval these kids get.) At this point it's posturing. As I've noted before also likely is male tusk bashing. Would it happen with women leading both sides? Something tells me not as much. Wasn't trying to start a debate, and what follows might be better suited to the pet peeve thread - but there is no such thing as "improperly papered" in immigration law. DACA folks and others are not immigrants, or undocumented workers, or your tired and poor, or whatever other made-up phrase folks use to try and make illegal aliens sound more acceptable in society. If you are in this country without gov't permission, or overstayed any visa you received, you are an illegal alien, plain and simple, and in violation of federal criminal law. That said, I'm glad our government is beginning to look at both legal and illegal immigration issues - as it is truly complicated and long overdue for an overhaul. I was merely opining that the immigration tail should not be wagging the US dog - it is not the priority at the moment. |
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Post by foghorn on Jan 19, 2018 14:55:46 GMT -5
Stevil--agreed. I certainly get that there isn't an "improperly papered" version, but as the youth cannot intentionally violate the law, they haven't chosen by their actions that status (though by the definitions sections of the INA and 8 CFR they are in violation "innocent illegals?" But for sure, they have been, can, and doubtless will be subject to removal.
Overstays? Way less sympathetic. Give them voluntary departure.
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Post by captainobvious on Jan 19, 2018 15:03:54 GMT -5
Have any authority for that? According to "federal criminal law," as you put it, as well as the Immigration and Nationality Act, there is no such thing as an "illegal alien." The term is "undocumented" and being undocumented is not illegal. As the DACA kids were kids when brought over I would view them as improperly papered. Given that to be daca you have to have graduated, been generally not a threat, etc. They are, taken as a whole, likely to be better qualified to participate in the economy than our citizens. If you look at last night's discussions, the hold up isn't the DACA but the requirement someone has for a wall. That's from Mitch, not from Schumer. (to those who'd day "but there's 800,000" I say we let in Cubans of all stripes, some of them fresh out of the Cuban Jails, and they never got vetting or any of the snorting disapproval these kids get.) At this point it's posturing. As I've noted before also likely is male tusk bashing. Would it happen with women leading both sides? Something tells me not as much. Wasn't trying to start a debate, and what follows might be better suited to the pet peeve thread - but there is no such thing as "improperly papered" in immigration law. DACA folks and others are not immigrants, or undocumented workers, or your tired and poor, or whatever other made-up phrase folks use to try and make illegal aliens sound more acceptable in society. If you are in this country without gov't permission, or overstayed any visa you received, you are an illegal alien, plain and simple, and in violation of federal criminal law. That said, I'm glad our government is beginning to look at both legal and illegal immigration issues - as it is truly complicated and long overdue for an overhaul. I was merely opining that the immigration tail should not be wagging the US dog - it is not the priority at the moment. |
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jan 19, 2018 15:21:51 GMT -5
We were just informed that in the event of a shut down all leave, AWS, telework is cancelled for monday and that we are to report for up to 4 hours to perform shutdown duties only. If we can do it in less than 4 hours - than we are to do so.
If it is like last time - the vast majority of folks will be non essential (excepted) and will not be allowed to report. We are not allowed to take any federal equipment home with you. Working or using government equipment in any way - is illegal. So no - you can not do work - you can not check your email, you can not use the down time to organize your files or to catch up or to - prepare for upcoming matters - unless you have been specific authority to do so.
As to the politics behind the stand off - no comment beyond my standing gripe of - will we EVER have a budget that is passed on time? I think they should pass a bill to say the budget has to be handled alone as a stand alone bill and not allow all these attachments that end up mucking things up.
Also - I frankly would rather have a shut down then go through another month of a CR as that is getting old as no one will make any decisions on hiring with just a CR.
And to clarify - I am not a SSA insider. I am with a different federal agency. So there will be some differences in approach between agencies - most of which will revolve around whether or not your job is necessary and will still have to report and work.
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Post by Pixie on Jan 19, 2018 15:31:44 GMT -5
And it's not as if I can hold extra hearings if I come into the office on my telework days. Human Resources sent out an email a couple hours ago giving guidance for the shutdown, but I saw no mention of telework. Might be better if no one asks. Absent a directive I am proceeding as if there is no change in telework protocol. That is the common sense approach, but then this is the federal government. Pixie |
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Post by neufenland on Jan 19, 2018 15:36:37 GMT -5
As the DACA kids were kids when brought over I would view them as improperly papered. Given that to be daca you have to have graduated, been generally not a threat, etc. They are, taken as a whole, likely to be better qualified to participate in the economy than our citizens. If you look at last night's discussions, the hold up isn't the DACA but the requirement someone has for a wall. That's from Mitch, not from Schumer. (to those who'd day "but there's 800,000" I say we let in Cubans of all stripes, some of them fresh out of the Cuban Jails, and they never got vetting or any of the snorting disapproval these kids get.) At this point it's posturing. As I've noted before also likely is male tusk bashing. Would it happen with women leading both sides? Something tells me not as much. Wasn't trying to start a debate, and what follows might be better suited to the pet peeve thread - but there is no such thing as "improperly papered" in immigration law. DACA folks and others are not immigrants, or undocumented workers, or your tired and poor, or whatever other made-up phrase folks use to try and make illegal aliens sound more acceptable in society. If you are in this country without gov't permission, or overstayed any visa you received, you are an illegal alien, plain and simple, and in violation of federal criminal law. That said, I'm glad our government is beginning to look at both legal and illegal immigration issues - as it is truly complicated and long overdue for an overhaul. I was merely opining that the immigration tail should not be wagging the US dog - it is not the priority at the moment. It’s an administrative violation to be undocumented; not a criminal one. That’s why IJs can do the cases and there is no right to a jury trial in a district court. Removal is, likewise, an administrative sanction. |
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Post by johnthornton on Jan 19, 2018 15:43:45 GMT -5
We were just informed that in the event of a shut down all leave, AWS, telework is cancelled for monday and that we are to report for up to 4 hours to perform shutdown duties only. If we can do it in less than 4 hours - than we are to do so. If it is like last time - the vast majority of folks will be non essential (excepted) and will not be allowed to report. We are not allowed to take any federal equipment home with you. Working or using government equipment in any way - is illegal. So no - you can not do work - you can not check your email, you can not use the down time to organize your files or to catch up or to - prepare for upcoming matters - unless you have been specific authority to do so. As to the politics behind the stand off - no comment beyond my standing gripe of - will we EVER have a budget that is passed on time? I think they should pass a bill to say the budget has to be handled alone as a stand alone bill and not allow all these attachments that end up mucking things up. Also - I frankly would rather have a shut down then go through another month of a CR as that is getting old as no one will make any decisions on hiring with just a CR. I heard very different information. (Your clarification was helpful--I had assumed that you were an OHO employee.) I heard that except for the Administrative Assistant, ALL OHO hearing office employees are deemed essential and would work as usual on Monday. Telework is NOT cancelled but all other leave is cancelled. If you take leave, it is considered a furlough and subject to not being paid. The four hours of shutdown work is ONLY for the Administrative Assistant. |
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Post by christina on Jan 19, 2018 15:53:47 GMT -5
keep in mind we, as in all board members, work for different agencies. so many of us at oho are working Monday but that is not necessarily the case for our colleagues who work for other agencies.
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