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Post by coralshell on Apr 23, 2012 18:19:32 GMT -5
In the past it seems liek they started with less cities and then after the primary hire would then have smaller certs. It seemed like some of the individuals who were selected on these smaller certs even participated in the same tng session as others who were selected from the primary hire.
It seems others have noted that this is an ongoing process particularly since they included so many cities on the cert. I am inclined to agree with those posters. It seems like the PTB would have more people to consider for the openings that were on the cert if they continue to use the current cert for as long as they can. Does anyone know how long SSA can continue to fill from the same cert? Or when a cert would expire?
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Post by rfslaw57 on Apr 23, 2012 18:34:10 GMT -5
Let me apologize to all of the highly qualified attorneys on this board. My frustration got the better of me.
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 23, 2012 18:57:24 GMT -5
In the past it seems liek they started with less cities and then after the primary hire would then have smaller certs. It seemed like some of the individuals who were selected on these smaller certs even participated in the same tng session as others who were selected from the primary hire. It seems others have noted that this is an ongoing process particularly since they included so many cities on the cert. I am inclined to agree with those posters. It seems like the PTB would have more people to consider for the openings that were on the cert if they continue to use the current cert for as long as they can. Does anyone know how long SSA can continue to fill from the same cert? Or when a cert would expire? They don't last very long. I'm not sure of the exact timeline, but I don't think there will be more hires from this actual cert, unless there's someone who changes his or her mind and declines after accepting, and the cert is still in SSA's hands. EDIT: from the bit of research I've done, the cert is returned to OPM showing the ones that were selected, etc, and signed off on. At that point, the cert is no longer active. And, if that's the case, I don't think OPM lets an agency hold on to them for too long. We've seen at least one "supplemental cert" like you describe, I think in 2010; the folks hired from that small cert didn't even know there WAS a second cert until they were hired, and the participated in the last training class that had been scheduled for the larger hire.
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Post by topher on Apr 23, 2012 20:48:15 GMT -5
Anyone on their way to wild, wonderful West Virginia can feel free to send me a PM if you are looking for info.
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Post by nylawyer on Apr 23, 2012 21:35:16 GMT -5
So, if I understand the process, if there is another round of hiring this fall, it will be with a new cert that I may or may not be on?
As far as I know, no one was hired at any place on my GAL, if true then I don't have any strikes? What if it turns out there was a hiring at one of those locations, does that mean I have at least one strike?
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 23, 2012 21:59:44 GMT -5
You don't know if you have a strike or not. If no one was hired for your GAL cities, then you don't. You may or may not have one if there was a hiring.
You've got it right--- you may or may not be on a new cert, depending on whether they leave out the three strikers again, how large the cert is, and what cities are on it.
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Post by hopeful92 on Apr 24, 2012 9:24:45 GMT -5
Does this mean ny and nj positions filled by transfers?? Wish we coukd be told positions not even available any more so we wouldn't have to wonder
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Post by yankeesfan on Apr 24, 2012 16:24:07 GMT -5
I am not aware of any transfers to offices in NY or NJ and, so far as I know, the only hires in Region 2 were 1 spot in Syracuse and another in Puerto Rico. While there were many metro NYC cities as well as other NE and Mid-Atlantic cities on the cert, it does not appear that anyone was actually hired for them, so far as I am able to piece together. If anyone has info to the contrary, please post it.
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Post by rfslaw57 on Apr 24, 2012 19:57:21 GMT -5
One frustrating part of this process is the lack of information. What's known "for sure" is 30 people posted on the poll where they were hired. If we believe 82 were hired (instead of the 130ish many of us thought), that means 52 were not participating. Those 52 could be all over the map (literally). The really crazy thing is, if I understand right, if one office decides to fill the vacancy via a transfer, that does not mean the office the IAJ came from will necessarily be filled from this cert. So, let's say 20 or so vacancies are filled by transfers, what happens to their former positions? Even if those are also filled by transfers, eventually there will be 20 different vacancies somewhere. Wouldn' the agency save a lot more money by playing the whole thing through until all vacancies are filled?
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 24, 2012 20:18:18 GMT -5
I would think that if they need to fill the openings created by transfers quickly, they just do more transfers. They can't just "play the whole thing through", even if they put every location on every cert (which would REALLY add to the confusion). They can't keep a cert forever, and they can't keep asking for them over and over again either.
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Post by bartleby on Apr 24, 2012 20:50:35 GMT -5
I'm pretty sure I mentioned that if your GAL was only great locations your chances would be very low as current ALJ's are trying to get back home from bad/undesirable/not home places, or want to go to better places than they are, or maybe trying to get to some place to retire. Due to the transfer procedure, new hires will normally be given more undesirable locations. Several HOCALJ positions have just opened and that means more opportunities for current ALJ transfers and the process continues. Your frustration with the system pales in comparison to the frustration for ALJ's waiting for transfers. Although all took the position knowingly and most do it uncomplainingly, it does tend to irk those of us that waited 3-4 years to get the job and 1-1 1/2 years waiting for transfers to hear newbies whining about the process when neither they nor we know how most of it works. One must have some faith in the system, because it doesn't get any better from the inside..
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Post by MerelyForTheAsking on Apr 25, 2012 9:47:30 GMT -5
Actually, SSA can do whatever it wants with the certs. It can and does ignore OPM scores in making placements, uses the GAL to "reach" certain people it wants with lower scores by three-striking higher-scored people early in the selection process, and can ask for as many certs. as it wants. SSA pays OPM for the examination/interview process at the beginning, and apparently told OPM not to send the "three-strikers" on the current cert. Thus, SSA is in complete control of the game from start to finish, except for OPM's non-sensical and ultimately-irrelevant system of scoring applicants based on "courtroom litigation" experience even though more than 99% of ALJ hires will be at SSA for NON-adversarial hearings. Duhhhhurr!
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Post by mcb on Apr 25, 2012 10:16:28 GMT -5
except for OPM's non-sensical and ultimately-irrelevant system of scoring applicants based on "courtroom litigation" experience even though more than 99% of ALJ hires will be at SSA for NON-adversarial hearings. Duhhhhurr! While, the majority of those that go through the selection process will be end up - as you note - SSA ALJs, the testing is designed to select Federal ALJs for all administrative agencies, some who will be doing adverserial proceedings with rules of evidence in play. Perhaps, two tests is the way to go - one for adverserial ALJs, one for non-adverserial ALJs - but that would be more work for those involved in the ALJ selection process.
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Post by southerner on Apr 25, 2012 11:20:51 GMT -5
3 ALJ's to Alexandria, one a current SA, one a current AA, and one a former AA and now regional atty
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Post by southerner on Apr 25, 2012 11:21:07 GMT -5
Louisiana not Virginia
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Post by tricia on Apr 25, 2012 11:44:03 GMT -5
Rfs, if it helps you at all, the system is so unpredictable and impossible to understand that not getting hired really becomes more palatable as time goes on. It's only frustrating as long as you remain optimistic. Hang in there.
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Post by prescient on Apr 25, 2012 12:34:35 GMT -5
Having offices on the list where there are no current vacancies and not communicating that info to those hoping for a spot is frustrating. To those who were hoping for a NY/NJ spot, I know at least 2 offices have no open spots.
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Post by 71stretch on Apr 25, 2012 13:06:39 GMT -5
Having offices on the list where there are no current vacancies and not communicating that info to those hoping for a spot is frustrating. To those who were hoping for a NY/NJ spot, I know at least 2 offices have no open spots. There have always been offices on certs that either didn't have openings or were likely to have their openings filled by transfer. It's frustrating, yes, but as noted above, after several certs, you get used to it.
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Post by rasputin on Apr 25, 2012 22:46:54 GMT -5
Offered a job in Houston ... accepted. It's been a long sojourn. I made the cert back in 2007, but have been passed over a couple times. I pretty much gave up some time ago. I was happily shocked to get the call.
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Post by grandparay on Apr 25, 2012 22:49:55 GMT -5
rasputin, did you get the call on Thursday?
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