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Post by redsox1 on Mar 9, 2014 10:37:53 GMT -5
Testing was completed in December....the procter told us he did not have anymore request to return to D.C....btw everyone had the same protor(s)...8 were asked to test only 7 appeared...exams have been graded as statuses are changed. The issue had nothing to do with the December testing....systems where in place by then to prevent the previous snafu from happening. It didn't look good folks...my only question is...will OPM foot the bill if it is determined the WD has to be done over? I am not sure I understand what you say happened. If the WD was compromised in the manner that I think you described, it was a two level failure. The disks were compromised and the original printed out answers were lost or destroyed because there are relatively quick fixes, suggested by other posters, that could correct one or he other failures. Both events are possible but the likelihood of both occurring to 30% of the responses (if we accept the SD poll results) is low. That said, I do believe that something is wrong because the delay in light of SSA's ramping up to hire is ... weird to say the least. Another angle to this is that, in my experience in government, if there is a screw up mangers will typical delay making tough calls until they need to. So that could be playing into this as well. If you are correct and 30% were compromised, I guess that OPM would pay to have those folks re-do and offer a re-take to all on their own dime. One thing to keep in mind is that we are not entitled to a perfect process. People do make mistakes. If OPM acts reasonably to mitigate the damage and keeps the integrity of the process as intact as possible, I suspect a reviewing Court would be somewhat sympathetic should those who have to pay sue. Sorry for the tangent but my spouse is sick of talking about this so I need some outlet.
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Post by anotherfed on Mar 9, 2014 11:25:35 GMT -5
>:DAnother possibility: OPM is just screwing with us. Bottom line is that scores will come out when they come out.
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Post by futuressaalj on Mar 9, 2014 11:48:37 GMT -5
I tested the furst week and the process as well as security of the test did not show any indications that there would be problems. That is the reason why they had us both save to a disk and print hard copy. The discs they used were brand new. They checked the disc and the written copy for each person. Could there have been a screw up on one day? Yes but that does not mean the rest of the exams 3-4 months worth are in jeapordy.
The only thing at this point that could be delaying this is an investigation into someone leaking the subject matter of the WD or taping the questions of the SI for one of the groups that looked to profit by unlawfully preparing for the test. But this is really far fetched and would not involve a large number of people because lets face it. Why would we put our livelihood on the line?
These rumors are just that. And in my opinion they are bunk
In the meantime i am about to board my cruiseship in Tampa. Hopimg NORs are out when i return next Sunday!
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Post by moopigsdad on Mar 9, 2014 12:36:16 GMT -5
^You keep coming back to the December testing. But didn't that involve just a tiny handful of people compared to the 1,300 or so total test-takers? 90+% of the testing has been over for almost five months. I understand and I finished in August. But they don't issue NORs based on when the individual finishes. It is when the process is complete, which was December. I want my score as well but I also understand a few months in a government process is nothing. I will begin to think there is an issue if it gets to be 6 months but then again we have no idea what is happening behind the curtain. My app for the job I have now took 7 months from app to hire and there was no testing process like this and there were not thousands of applicants. Perspective I guess. I am completely with sratty on this one. We are coming up to three months since the final testing. I would say if scores don't arrive by mid-May we may have a major problem. There could be issues as DLOTS states. Rumors don't equal facts. All we know is OPM hasn't issued scores yet. Let's not create more innuendo and rumors as to why the NORs aren't out yet. If we waited this long surely two more months isn't going to make a major difference.
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Post by robespierre on Mar 9, 2014 13:56:45 GMT -5
Well, if you want to focus only on facts rather than rumors, there's really only one salient fact we know for sure: 90%+ of all applicants completed their testing FIVE MONTHS ago (or more) and we still don't have NORs.
The only reasons I can think of for that kind of delay are: (1) tech glitch, (2) scores are being withheld for institutional reasons, or (3) OPM is just painfully slow. Whichever one it is, it doesn't reflect well on OPM.
Life goes on. We'll get NORs when we get them. This will all be forgotten when the process moves on. All true. But it's still annoying.
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Post by anotherfed on Mar 9, 2014 18:33:43 GMT -5
Well, if you want to focus only on facts rather than rumors, there's really only one salient fact we know for sure: 90%+ of all applicants completed their testing FIVE MONTHS ago (or more) and we still don't have NORs. The only reasons I can think of for that kind of delay are: (1) tech glitch, (2) scores are being withheld for institutional reasons, or (3) OPM is just painfully slow. Whichever one it is, it doesn't reflect well on OPM. Life goes on. We'll get NORs when we get them. This will all be forgotten when the process moves on. All true. But it's still annoying. My money is on option 3. My taxpayer dollars at work...at glacial speeds.
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Post by 71stretch on Mar 9, 2014 19:43:21 GMT -5
Well, if you want to focus only on facts rather than rumors, there's really only one salient fact we know for sure: 90%+ of all applicants completed their testing FIVE MONTHS ago (or more) and we still don't have NORs. The only reasons I can think of for that kind of delay are: (1) tech glitch, (2) scores are being withheld for institutional reasons, or (3) OPM is just painfully slow. Whichever one it is, it doesn't reflect well on OPM. Life goes on. We'll get NORs when we get them. This will all be forgotten when the process moves on. All true. But it's still annoying. IT DOES NOT MATTER when the first people tested. They don't issue NORs piecemeal. They issue them when they are ready, after ALL the testing is done. I realize that the wait has been longer for those who tested at the front end, but you were not going to get your scores before everyone else.
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Post by hopefalj on Mar 9, 2014 20:12:49 GMT -5
Well, if you want to focus only on facts rather than rumors, there's really only one salient fact we know for sure: 90%+ of all applicants completed their testing FIVE MONTHS ago (or more) and we still don't have NORs. The only reasons I can think of for that kind of delay are: (1) tech glitch, (2) scores are being withheld for institutional reasons, or (3) OPM is just painfully slow. Whichever one it is, it doesn't reflect well on OPM. Life goes on. We'll get NORs when we get them. This will all be forgotten when the process moves on. All true. But it's still annoying. IT DOES NOT MATTER when the first people tested. They don't issue NORs piecemeal. They issue them when they are ready, after ALL the testing is done. I realize that the wait has been longer for those who tested at the front end, but you were not going to get your scores before everyone else. I completely agree that NORs aren't issued piecemeal, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't graded on a rolling basis. If there were an issue with scoring the tests, it would/should have been recognized much earlier. Even if grading was withheld until after the completion of the initial testing group, one would think they would have recognized the issue well before January of this year. The proposed timeline doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. On top of that, I can't imagine a scenario where it takes an individual a whole day to check two WDs for grammatical and spelling mistakes, either, as suggested in Sith's post. Like you've been saying all along, we'll all find out when we find out. Constant stressing and speculating is about as much fun as undergoing another SI would be. I'm just thankful this coming week is spring break and I have vacation scheduled to keep me from worrying about it.
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davef
Full Member
Posts: 87
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Post by davef on Mar 10, 2014 1:58:32 GMT -5
Well, if you want to focus only on facts rather than rumors, there's really only one salient fact we know for sure: 90%+ of all applicants completed their testing FIVE MONTHS ago (or more) and we still don't have NORs. The only reasons I can think of for that kind of delay are: (1) tech glitch, (2) scores are being withheld for institutional reasons, or (3) OPM is just painfully slow. Whichever one it is, it doesn't reflect well on OPM. Life goes on. We'll get NORs when we get them. This will all be forgotten when the process moves on. All true. But it's still annoying. IT DOES NOT MATTER when the first people tested. They don't issue NORs piecemeal. They issue them when they are ready, after ALL the testing is done. I realize that the wait has been longer for those who tested at the front end, but you were not going to get your scores before everyone else. . It's not as much of when the first people tested as it is about when the majority of people tested. Until Dark Lord posted in December about December tests, we all assumed that testing had been completed over a month prior. Gottabeme and I both tested in the beginning of October and were told by the proctors that we were the last group. We had no reports of any testig from early October until a very small group apparently tested in December. It's hard to believe that OPM would put everything on hold for the a month and a half in order to test a handful of rescheduled individuals, prior to starting the scoring process. I've been silent as to the rumors on this thread as I have no clue as to the rumor's validity. However, two facts that that are disconcerting to me. first, it has been five months since 99% of the applicants finished testing. Second, our application manager status change occurred over two months ago indicating the process was conplete. I'm with Observer and Future in that we will get the scores when we get them, and trying to determine a cause for the delay is largly speculative. But, I understand the concern given the aforementioned facts. Something has clearly slowed the process since December.
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Post by Dark Lord of the Sith on Mar 10, 2014 10:32:03 GMT -5
Love the discussion...you all certainly have the right to believe what you want about the process, reason for delay, and veracity of rumors...hold on to what you want...I could not have a better source other than someone being on the ALJ team at OPM. Just prepare yourselves if SSA and OPM decide to use the old register for a small hiring this year to protect the budget while OPM tries to straigten out their mess! (This is now a huge possibility) The truth is stranger than fiction!
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Post by prescient on Mar 10, 2014 11:13:09 GMT -5
Love the discussion...you all certainly have the right to believe what you want about the process, reason for delay, and veracity of rumors...hold on to what you want...I could not have a better source other than someone being on the ALJ team at OPM. Just prepare yourselves if SSA and OPM decide to use the old register for a small hiring this year to protect the budget while OPM tries to straigten out their mess! (This is now a huge possibility) The truth is stranger than fiction! Is starting the entire testing process over from scratch, among the possible outcomes being contemplated?
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Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 10, 2014 11:18:39 GMT -5
Love the discussion...you all certainly have the right to believe what you want about the process, reason for delay, and veracity of rumors...hold on to what you want...I could not have a better source other than someone being on the ALJ team at OPM. Just prepare yourselves if SSA and OPM decide to use the old register for a small hiring this year to protect the budget while OPM tries to straigten out their mess! (This is now a huge possibility) The truth is stranger than fiction! DLOTS - without citing your source, your source is, essentially, yourself - and most of us, I'm sure, understand your desire and efforts to protect your source. In addition, I appreciate your bringing the information to us. However, having said that - it is just barely a rumor - nothing is in writing, and the details you have outlined don't make sense - doesn't mean it's not true, it's just not enough information to process, logically. So, you may very well be 100% correct. However, the NORs could come out "this week" and quash your credibility. It has certainly taken longer than expected and your statement about the glitch with the WD could very well be true. Many of us went through the process. I know when I went through - September 16-17 - the gitch about the computer file, misidentification, whatever - I simply can't fathom that happening - although that was somewhat later in the process - it wasn't the end. So, they're not having to do 100% of the WDs as you suggest - so the mathematical formula, only 2 people working on it - whatever the kernel of facts in your report - certainly it could be exactly as you suggest. But there's no objective evidence of it. And if your source is not on the ALJ team, he/she is getting the information second hand, you're getting it third and and we're taking it fourth hand from you. While we have nothing better to do, except wait, that just seems awfully flimsy (regardless of how much I enjoy your posts) upon which to base a firm conclusion about all of this. This was the most complex testing process they've done in a while. There are additional testing sections that have not been presented to the ALJ candidates before - ever. Any or all of these could have contributed to this delay. In any event - and regardless of what I said above - I do appreciate your bringing to the board a possible explanation.
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Post by Dark Lord of the Sith on Mar 10, 2014 11:31:37 GMT -5
Ace...I have a dog in this hunt. So I am not trying to spread seeds of paranoia. You are absolutely right that results could come out this week and before May. I do want to point out that the ALJ team at OPM is not operating in a vacuum and the head of OPM has to explain the delay to someone(s) since millions of dollars where invested in this new test and contractor's are still cashing pay checks regarding this program. Enough said. For fear I have said to much...I will no longer speak on the subject. I will await the final results like everyone else.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2014 11:58:41 GMT -5
Ace...I have a dog in this hunt. So I am not trying to spread seeds of paranoia. You are absolutely right that results could come out this week and before May. I do want to point out that the ALJ team at OPM is not operating in a vacuum and the head of OPM has to explain the delay to someone(s) since millions of dollars where invested in this new test and contractor's are still cashing pay checks regarding this program. Enough said. For fear I have said to much...I will no longer speak on the subject. I will await the final results like everyone else. Thanks DLOTS for the information. We should not shoot the messenger of bad news and hopefully the NORs will surface sooner than later for all of us. You probably did reveal too much about the source, but we all appreciate your willingness to disclose the basis of your opinion after everybody starting wading in on your original posts. Ace did thank you also. Sometimes it is hard for any of us to communicate online comments without saying something that doesn’t come across as the person intended, but thanks again for the information.
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davef
Full Member
Posts: 87
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Post by davef on Mar 10, 2014 12:19:39 GMT -5
Love the discussion...you all certainly have the right to believe what you want about the process, reason for delay, and veracity of rumors...hold on to what you want...I could not have a better source other than someone being on the ALJ team at OPM. Just prepare yourselves if SSA and OPM decide to use the old register for a small hiring this year to protect the budget while OPM tries to straigten out their mess! (This is now a huge possibility) The truth is stranger than fiction! DLOTS - without citing your source, your source is, essentially, yourself - and most of us, I'm sure, understand your desire and efforts to protect your source. In addition, I appreciate your bringing the information to us. However, having said that - it is just barely a rumor - nothing is in writing, and the details you have outlined don't make sense - doesn't mean it's not true, it's just not enough information to process, logically. So, you may very well be 100% correct. However, the NORs could come out "this week" and quash your credibility. It has certainly taken longer than expected and your statement about the glitch with the WD could very well be true. Many of us went through the process. I know when I went through - September 16-17 - the gitch about the computer file, misidentification, whatever - I simply can't fathom that happening - although that was somewhat later in the process - it wasn't the end. So, they're not having to do 100% of the WDs as you suggest - so the mathematical formula, only 2 people working on it - whatever the kernel of facts in your report - certainly it could be exactly as you suggest. But there's no objective evidence of it. And if your source is not on the ALJ team, he/she is getting the information second hand, you're getting it third and and we're taking it fourth hand from you. While we have nothing better to do, except wait, that just seems awfully flimsy (regardless of how much I enjoy your posts) upon which to base a firm conclusion about all of this. This was the most complex testing process they've done in a while. There are additional testing sections that have not been presented to the ALJ candidates before - ever. Any or all of these could have contributed to this delay. In any event - and regardless of what I said above - I do appreciate your bringing to the board a possible explanation. As usual, I'm in complete agreement with Ace. I apreciate DLOTS sharing this info, and my previous post was not intended as a knock against DLOTS. I don't have DLOTS inside info. But, what I do know is that it has been a long time since the status change, and a lot longer since the majority of us tested. Based on the info I do have, I can conclude that something has slowed the process since December. I am just resigned to the fact it is out of my hands and we will get the results (or not get them) when we get them (or not)...
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Post by sandiferhands (old) on Mar 10, 2014 12:45:11 GMT -5
Aside from being a pain in the keister, this delay is a really interesting phenomenon and I look forward to someday having it explained to me over a beer after a long day of 3.5 ALJ hearings.
In the meantime, I have to come down on the side of not putting a whole lot of stock in the "won't happen 'til May 12" theory. With all due respect to DLOTS, whose posts I enjoy, I haven't seen enough solid info to make me jump on that bandwagon.
My money is still on what I think is the most cogent theory, i.e., that there is a lot of strategery and machinations going on to sort candidates, account for preferences, and maybe even consider GALs preparatory to setting up interviews. I think they want to nip lawsuits in the bud, and want to make use of their shiny new register as quickly as possible. For those who say this would take a much more sophisticated and clandestine operation than OPM/ODAR are capable of, I can only say that it would take an equally formidable machine to keep a horrendous computer glitch and severly-delayed register secret.
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Post by grandparay1 on Mar 10, 2014 13:24:38 GMT -5
While at first I thought that DLOTS' posts were in fun, I know believe they have some (maybe serious) validity. The most interesting comment recently was that there was a thought of pulling a small cert from the current register. I hope DLOTS keeps us updated with any inside info in that regard.
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Post by grandparay1 on Mar 10, 2014 13:25:56 GMT -5
sorry "I now believe..."
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Post by moopigsdad on Mar 10, 2014 13:45:58 GMT -5
While at first I thought that DLOTS' posts were in fun, I know believe they have some (maybe serious) validity. The most interesting comment recently was that there was a thought of pulling a small cert from the current register. I hope DLOTS keeps us updated with any inside info in that regard. I do not see them pulling any more certs from the present "old" register as most of the people wanted have been used up. SSA will continue to pressure OPM to get the new register ready ASAP. Even if NORs first come out in May, there is still time for a hiring this fiscal year.
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Post by Ace Midnight on Mar 10, 2014 13:58:15 GMT -5
For fear I have said to much...I will no longer speak on the subject. I will await the final results like everyone else. And I certainly didn't mean to suggest that you sit down and shut up. Far from it. In a vacuum like this, anything beyond rank speculation - which frankly, we're almost getting too good at as a board, is very welcome. But, like all good attorneys, we picked it apart and the overall quality of what you felt comfortable putting out was somewhat easy in which to poke holes. That is not your fault - that's the situation's fault. It could easily be remedied by the ALJ team. If they just put out a monthly status email to the candidates still in the mix - that would have gone miles towards heading things like this off at the pass. But I also understand their interest in keeping mum. However, a glitch and delay of this magnitude (even if it is something wildly different from what you suggest) warrants some communication, in my humble opinion. We've all detected something wasn't "right" - when the "feeling" was that something would happen by the amorphous "mid-February" - and the silence was roaring. Then - "first week of March" was floated as a rumor. Gone. The Ides are this upcoming Saturday. Your date of "May" and you originally ascribed it to a specific date, but walked that back and are now, somewhat firmly at "May" something (2014). At some point, my prediction of "this week" will be right - just doesn't negate all those times I was wrong. But, like Sgt Schultz - "I know nothink...NOTHINK" about the delay other than it seems excessive. This is analagous to what happened at the Superdome after Hurricane Katrina - because of the absolute chaos, the authorities did not regain control of the information coming out of the area - so, misinformation became the order of the day. That misinformation lives on as "facts" to this day. We are kind of in that weird mix of fact, fiction, rumor and truth right now.
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