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Post by Gaidin on Mar 7, 2016 22:39:48 GMT -5
There was an agency in Washington, they called the OPM, it was the ruin of many an application, they lost many, I know I'm one.....follow up....there may some computer protocol that keeps you out of getting your NORs. Yes of course it's an OPM cover up 36 months in the making. It can't possibly be that they remove ALL applications after 36 months like the email says. Its almost like your trying to rile everybody up for no good reason.
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Post by mikeinthehills on Mar 7, 2016 23:42:03 GMT -5
So much information is here and the best way to get to that information is to go back in time to 2013 and read what what we thought when it was happening and fresh. Funny you should say that because I was just time traveling back to March - July of 2013 earlier today. So many of my current questions have already been debated and a consensus reached back in March of 2013. Keep on reading and you can see why some folks didn't make it past phase one. Keep on reading and you can see the whole process play out. There is a wealth of knowledge, experience, and kind people on this board, and for that I am thankful. This!!!! For all of you recently coming to the board with regard to the Refresh, this is the best advice I or anyone who has been through the process can give you. I have seen so many questions asked over the last several weeks that have already been raised, discussed and dissected to the nth degree in those threads from March, 2013 forward. There is an incredible amount of valuable insight there with regard to the application, sjt, wd, lbmt and si (if you are fortunate enough to get that far, and ... you still several months from there before the dreaded "see details tab" appears or an NOR email arrives) along with lots of insight on the trials and tribulations of the process itself. If you are truly interested in the position, take a few hours and learn from those who came before you. It will be time well spent. Good luck to you all. There are several hundred alj positions being filled over the next three years. Hopefully, someone can say to you in 2017, "It's a good time to be on the register."
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Post by roggenbier on Mar 8, 2016 5:40:15 GMT -5
Gaidan,
It may be as you say something so simple as you say, that after three years, you can no longer view your application details. That makes complete sense. However, it may also mean something more, an honest mistake, a programming glitch, or something else.
Did you get your slip in the mail that your personal information had been compromised with the OPM hack earlier in 2015? I did.
Did you have you GALs erased by a computer glitch in December 2015 and have to have them reentered? I did.
Did you have part of your application materials lost along the way? I did.
The erasure may be something or nothing. I hope that I am wrong and you are correct.
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Post by minny on Mar 8, 2016 8:48:54 GMT -5
My application date was 3/15/2013 so, based on the comments above comments, I expect my application to go away in several days. The more these occurrences follow expectations, the less likely a mistake or computer glitch is occurring.
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jp42k
New Member
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Post by jp42k on Mar 8, 2016 9:51:18 GMT -5
Yesterday was the 3 year anniversary of filing my application. And today my application is gone. Not seeing anything nefarious. But I'm also not prone to seeing conspiracies.
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Post by Propmaster on Mar 8, 2016 16:53:31 GMT -5
Let me try something metaphorically graphical to see if it clarifies anything for anyone.
We are going to draw an inverted ziggurat. At the top is a group that includes all lawyers in the United States who might be interested in becoming ALJs and meet the basic requirements (subjectively).
Qualified LAWYERS
Some of those lawyers manage to find out about a brief opening of a job application and they apply to be ALJs.
ALJ APPLICANTS
The application begins a process we call the "examination." It consists of many parts, some of which halt the process of the applicants (turning them into unsuccessful applicants, temporarily). The examination parts (the different tests and scored submissions) result, if one is both skilled and lucky (or only one, but exceedingly so) in a numerical rating. This is called the "Score." Everyone who has a score is on the National ALJ "Register" administered by OPM. All "applicants" were dealing with OPM, which administers the ALJ examination. OPM made a "cut off" in the 2013 testing that meant some people were 'stuck' at the applicant level and did not get to finish the testing and get a numerical rating.
A "register" is a list of people. The list is in order of score. OPM does not care anything about people on the register except their scores and their location preferences (GAL).
The REGISTER
The register is an ongoing entity that is not associated with a particular hiring by a particular agency. Unless it "expires," everyone on it will stay on it. When the job announcement "opens" again, a shot of fresh LAWYERS are poured into the ziggurat and become APPLICANTS. The same process that was applied to those still suspended at the REGISTER level is applied to the new bunch because the 'architecture' of the 'funnel' is the same. This process is called "replenishing" or "refreshing" the register, and on the board we call it "a refresh." It means pouring in more qualified lawyers to see if they make it to the register. It does not affect the existing register pool, except to "dilute" it with a greater number of qualified lawyers.
All of those on the register wait until any agency wants to hire an ALJ or two, or 750. The agency must ask OPM for a "Certificate" of eligible applicants (informally called a "Cert") for the city or cities in which the agency plans to hire (the specifics of this and other processes are beyond the scope of this representation). At this point, OPM skims off a mix of those on the Register with high enough scores in the right geographical places to fulfill the agency's needs for a pool of potential hires.
The Certificate
The certificate comes from OPM and goes to the agency. For this example, I will use SSA. SSA receives a subset of the people on the register - the people on the certificate or cert. Unless people are in the pool of people on the register when the certificate is selected from the register, they cannot be on the cert.
Sometimes, more than one 'round of hiring' is made from a group of certs (one cert for each potential hiring city, generally). When a cert is "closed out," we say on the board that the FOAD e-mail was issued. This means that those people on that cert are placed back into the general register pool for future potential selection by OPM for inclusion to an agency on a certificate.
When the agency (SSA, in this example) gets the certs, is considers the top three highest scoring individuals for each opening as graded by OPM. It may choose one or skip hiring in that location. If it chooses one, the other two people considered are counted as having had a bona fide "consideration" for the position (I don't know if consideration attaches when they do not hire anyone). Until someone is considered and not hired three times, that person is required to be considered in that group of three people. After being considered 3 times, the agency can ignore that person when looking at who the top 3 highest scorers are.
Consider 3
In other words, a person is on the register and sent to SSA on a cert, but when SSA looks down the list of people for a given city, it can skip that person (or not, as it sees fit) when choosing who the top 3 are. The consideration lasts for the life of the register (just like the interviews). This is why the board refers to SSA being able to "reach" almost anyone they want who gets referred by OPM on the cert. Most high scoring people on the register, and thus on any cert, have been considered 3 times, and SSA can move past them when looking at new cities to hire (or not, if they decide it is time to hire that person after 3, 5, or 289 considerations without hiring).
When the agency chooses an applicant from the register who was referred on a certificate and considered for a position, that person is called an ALJ.
The graphic looks as follows:
Qualified LAWYERS ALJ APPLICANTS The REGISTER The Certificate Consider 3 ALJ
It's a funnel.
When a register expires (this one is good until at least 2018), the funnel is emptied and the whole process begins again from scratch. At THAT point, the rules of the funnel (i.e., the exam) can change, but not otherwise.
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Post by Gaidin on Mar 8, 2016 17:03:30 GMT -5
^^^^^BRILLIANT^^^^^^
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Post by Mermaid on Mar 8, 2016 17:08:29 GMT -5
Good overview.
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Post by Pixie on Mar 8, 2016 17:13:56 GMT -5
I feel the same way. Gaidin you probably should link this page in your "Important Threads" thread. Pixie.
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Post by aljudgmental on Mar 8, 2016 17:17:49 GMT -5
Be on the lookout: The new exam could possibly have new cities on it, as well. I would imagine we would be able to update our GALs once again, if this is to occur.
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Post by gary on Mar 8, 2016 17:28:23 GMT -5
Be on the lookout: The new exam could possibly have new cities on it, as well. I would imagine we would be able to update our GALs once again, if this is to occur. If it's a refresh, everybody on the register gets to modify their GALs..
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Post by Gaidin on Mar 8, 2016 17:52:23 GMT -5
Be on the lookout: The new exam could possibly have new cities on it, as well. I would imagine we would be able to update our GALs once again, if this is to occur. Watch calling it a new exam. It isn't a new exam its an opportunity for people to take the same exams that was offered in 2013. Not trying to pick at you but with new people coming to the Board I don't want to give anyone the wrong idea about whats going on. I honestly don't think any new cities that were not available in January will be on the list but new cities have been rumored in the past so maybe some will come to fruition. gary is right past practice has been that when a refresh occurs everyone can update your GAL.
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Post by mikeinthehills on Mar 8, 2016 20:49:23 GMT -5
Prop, great analysis! My only quibble is that the fonts you used probably don't accurately reflect the various pool sizes. They surely don't make a font small enough for "alj" to reflect the final pool from the number of "Qualified Lawyers" and on through the process. It's kind of like our solar system ... the distance from start to finish is more like the distance from the Sun to Neptune, that's hard to put to scale in a post like Prop's ....
If you have 7 minutes, this video probably gives you a better perspective on your odds, and it's a really cool video in its own right. Enjoy!
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Post by sealaw90 on Mar 8, 2016 21:52:15 GMT -5
Prop, great analysis! My only quibble is that the fonts you used probably don't accurately reflect the various pool sizes. They surely don't make a font small enough for "alj" to reflect the final pool from the number of "Qualified Lawyers" and on through the process. It's kind of like our solar system ... the distance from start to finish is more like the distance from the Sun to Neptune, that's hard to put to scale in a post like Prop's .... If you have 7 minutes, this video probably gives you a better perspective on your odds, and it's a really cool video in its own right. Enjoy! Awesome video. And to think, the thousands of folks who recently applied for the astronaut program, you actually have a better chance of making ALJ than they have of becoming an astronaut!
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Post by seerant on Mar 8, 2016 22:51:42 GMT -5
EEOC AJs got an email today from EEOC HR chief to be on the lookout for an upcoming ALJ exam. Quite strange. Is anyone hearing anything about EEOC moving to ALJs?
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Post by minny on Mar 8, 2016 22:54:51 GMT -5
EEOC AJs got an email today from EEOC HR chief to be on the lookout for an upcoming ALJ exam. Quite strange. Is anyone hearing anything about EEOC moving to ALJs? I haven't but I sure wish they would. And the MSPB, too.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 8, 2016 23:36:38 GMT -5
EEOC AJs got an email today from EEOC HR chief to be on the lookout for an upcoming ALJ exam. Quite strange. Is anyone hearing anything about EEOC moving to ALJs? Possibly. But it is more likely that it is just a friendly FYI for their AJs who wish to apply.
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Post by luckylady2 on Mar 8, 2016 23:58:42 GMT -5
I checked, and as of today, my application and amterials are still on the App Manager, but heeding everyone's experience, I made sure I have all parts downloaded, just in case.....
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Post by Ready-Now! on Mar 9, 2016 7:00:32 GMT -5
Yesterday OPM posted on its web site the opening of the exam for ALJs in the near future. No significant info is contained in the announcement.
Edit: if this is old news about the posting I apologize for the redundancy.
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Post by sealaw90 on Mar 9, 2016 8:50:11 GMT -5
EEOC AJs got an email today from EEOC HR chief to be on the lookout for an upcoming ALJ exam. Quite strange. Is anyone hearing anything about EEOC moving to ALJs? Possibly. But it is more likely that it is just a friendly FYI for their AJs who wish to apply. That's exactly what it is. Many EEOC AJs eventually became ALJs.
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