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Post by bayou on Jun 10, 2016 20:56:35 GMT -5
Unfortunately, I think you are exactly right. For a newbie in this class, you actually have potential. Pixie. bayou have you ever considered a side career in poll administration? You can earn literally hundreds of likes all while sitting at your desk. Pretty sure I'm doomed over this date thing. Plus, my head hurts. I went looking for an explanation of how scores are calculated for these upcoming tests and found that thread where you posted the "clarifying" email from OPM. That contains a full on college level math class. That thread has more math than was used to send men to the moon.
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Post by Gaidin on Jun 10, 2016 20:59:36 GMT -5
bayou have you ever considered a side career in poll administration? You can earn literally hundreds of likes all while sitting at your desk. Pretty sure I'm doomed over this date thing. Plus, my head hurts. I went looking for an explanation of how scores are calculated for these upcoming tests and found that thread where you posted the "clarifying" email from OPM. That contains a full on college level math class. That thread has more math than was used to send men to the moon. And very little clarity. There are a number of different suggested answers but I don't think we ever came to a consensus solution.
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Post by briscoej on Jun 10, 2016 21:17:18 GMT -5
With all of the talk of people getting dropped in later stages I went back to see what I wrote for my bar admission date and saw that I gave the full date but wrote it as December x, xxxx. My immediate thought - was i supposed to use 12 instead of December?!?!
And that folks is when you know it's time to step away from the Internet and call it a night.
Congrats to everyone on making it to the next stage!
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Post by Reverend Geek on Jun 11, 2016 0:00:58 GMT -5
I am lucky so far. I received my email invitation to the second round even though my application listed only the month and year of my bar admissions. I will have to call the State to learn the actual date so that I can provide it if asked again.
I've read on the Board that the initial application is not the only time OPM asks for the bar admission date. I've also read that OPM has cut people at later stages for not putting down the exact dates of their bar admissions. The posts imply that these individual never provided the date at any stage and a reviewer finally dinged them for it.
My question is, will OPM cut applicants at the later stages because they did not provide the date for the initial application even though they provided it at all subsequent opportunities?
In other words, will I have an opportunity to repent and wipe away the errors of the past, or will this bar-admission issue hang over my head throughout the entire process no matter what I do?
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Post by lucy16 on Jun 11, 2016 0:40:58 GMT -5
I have not received any emails. Will we get an email if we are not selected to move on? I would like to know either way.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 11, 2016 4:34:01 GMT -5
I am lucky so far. I received my email invitation to the second round even though my application listed only the month and year of my bar admissions. I will have to call the State to learn the actual date so that I can provide it if asked again. I've read on the Board that the initial application is not the only time OPM asks for the bar admission date. I've also read that OPM has cut people at later stages for not putting down the exact dates of their bar admissions. The posts imply that these individual never provided the date at any stage and a reviewer finally dinged them for it. My question is, will OPM cut applicants at the later stages because they did not provide the date for the initial application even though they provided it at all subsequent opportunities? In other words, will I have an opportunity to repent and wipe away the errors of the past, or will this bar-admission issue hang over my head throughout the entire process no matter what I do? I would not let it "hang over your head" in this process. There is no other time they will ask you for your bar admission date, and it's only asked for once in that first phase. To my recollection, the ones who got dinged for that later did not report having omitted the date altogether earlier; it did seem that the reviewers simply had a different standard for "date". if you gave month and year, and got through, it's likely you will stay that way. Carry on!
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Post by bayou on Jun 11, 2016 7:14:08 GMT -5
I would not let it "hang over your head" in this process. There is no other time they will ask you for your bar admission date, and it's only asked for once in that first phase. To my recollection, the ones who got dinged for that later did not report having omitted the date altogether earlier; it did seem that the reviewers simply had a different standard for "date". if you gave month and year, and got through, it's likely you will stay that way. Carry on! 71stretch Forgive me for parsing your words so closely but I get contradictory meanings from your response. The whole dinged later thing doesn't seem to fit with the it will likely stay that way statement. Is it your recollection that those who had the date issue were only filtered out at the initial step, or were people knocked out after the online component or DC testing also? I seem to recall Funky saying that some paid for the DC testing, only to be booted for some issue with their app at that late date. Ultimately, as you point out, carry on. As long as I'm in the game, just hit the next pitch.
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Post by Pixie on Jun 11, 2016 7:28:17 GMT -5
Some went to the expense of paying for their trip to DC only to be eliminated later for failing to properly state the bar admission date. Those were the toughest ones. Pixie.
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Post by 71stretch on Jun 11, 2016 7:28:57 GMT -5
I would not let it "hang over your head" in this process. There is no other time they will ask you for your bar admission date, and it's only asked for once in that first phase. To my recollection, the ones who got dinged for that later did not report having omitted the date altogether earlier; it did seem that the reviewers simply had a different standard for "date". if you gave month and year, and got through, it's likely you will stay that way. Carry on! 71stretch Forgive me for parsing your words so closely but I get contradictory meanings from your response. The whole dinged later thing doesn't seem to fit with the it will likely stay that way statement. Is it your recollection that those who had the date issue were only filtered out at the initial step, or were people knocked out after the online component or DC testing also? I seem to recall Funky saying that some paid for the DC testing, only to be booted for some issue with their app at that late date. Ultimately, as you point out, carry on. As long as I'm in the game, just hit the next pitch. Sorry, I thought it was clear, but perhaps only to me. Most with that issue were filtered out at the first step, but there were a few reports of people being dinged for that at the very end, after the DC testing, as funky and I both noted. Stressing about it now makes no sense, as the odds are in your favor that it will not be an issue down the road, and you can't change anything now, either.
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Post by gary on Jun 11, 2016 7:32:58 GMT -5
I would not let it "hang over your head" in this process. There is no other time they will ask you for your bar admission date, and it's only asked for once in that first phase. To my recollection, the ones who got dinged for that later did not report having omitted the date altogether earlier; it did seem that the reviewers simply had a different standard for "date". if you gave month and year, and got through, it's likely you will stay that way. Carry on! 71stretch Forgive me for parsing your words so closely but I get contradictory meanings from your response. The whole dinged later thing doesn't seem to fit with the it will likely stay that way statement. Is it your recollection that those who had the date issue were only filtered out at the initial step, or were people knocked out after the online component or DC testing also? I seem to recall Funky saying that some paid for the DC testing, only to be booted for some issue with their app at that late date. Ultimately, as you point out, carry on. As long as I'm in the game, just hit the next pitch. I do not recall anyone being cut on active law licensure issues after the online testing. There were people cut on these issues after they went to DC and took the WD/LBMT/SI. Here's a thread where there was discussion of this issue: aljdiscussion.proboards.com/thread/2460/dqd-on-technicalityAnd another: aljdiscussion.proboards.com/thread/2462/bar-membership-discussionAnd another: aljdiscussion.proboards.com/thread/2505/disqualified-due-bar-license-issuesThere's likely further mention of the issue buried in other threads.
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Post by funkyodar on Jun 11, 2016 8:15:29 GMT -5
I remember people saying they were cut for the date thing at the initial phase. I don't recall that being the issue later in the process.
My recollection is those cut at the DC level either didn't make the minimum on the WD, the minimum on the SI or "upon further review, it was discovered you did not meet the initial eligibility requirements" because opm deemed they didn't have "active" bar status.
I don't think that last group had date issues, it was more the folks that had judicial or some other status unique to their state that for some reason opm deemed didn't equate to "active." Even though opm apparently deemed it such at phase 1 and let these folks go through the whole process.
There may have been some dinged for the date then. I just don't recall it. But, I will defer to Pixie, Stretch and whatever Gary dug up in those old threads that were contemporaneous to the actual events.
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Post by charlsiekate on Jun 11, 2016 9:02:43 GMT -5
I'm looking back at the application - and I'm baffled to realize that it does not state that you have to submit proof of you bar active bar membership. I swear, almost all of the USAJOBs I've ever applied to or even considered applying to require you to submit proof of your active bar membership. I submitted a letter of good standing from the Georgia Bar, because I'm active in Georgia but I have an inactive status with the South Carolina bar - but only because I thought it was a requirement. I'm honestly confused that it isn't a stated requirement. It is because it would be one more thing for them to look at and they don't look at anything beyond the assessment questionnaire in the first round? Like, no one even looks at the attached documents until later? This application process is bizarre. And somehow also fascinating.
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Post by Pixie on Jun 11, 2016 9:19:23 GMT -5
I'm looking back at the application - and I'm baffled to realize that it does not state that you have to submit proof of you bar active bar membership. I swear, almost all of the USAJOBs I've ever applied to or even considered applying to require you to submit proof of your active bar membership. I submitted a letter of good standing from the Georgia Bar, because I'm active in Georgia but I have an inactive status with the South Carolina bar - but only because I thought it was a requirement. I'm honestly confused that it isn't a stated requirement. It is because it would be one more thing for them to look at and they don't look at anything beyond the assessment questionnaire in the first round? Like, no one even looks at the attached documents until later? This application process is bizarre. And somehow also fascinating. Welcome to what we sometimes call Bizzaro World. And yes, it is fascinating in a twisted sort of way. Pixie.
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Post by Ready-Now! on Jun 11, 2016 9:49:55 GMT -5
I have not received any emails. Will we get an email if we are not selected to move on? I would like to know either way. iirc I think some reported getting such emails in 2013; those that didn't make it into the second round and it was a short time later after the invite to the second round. Take a look back in the 2013 threads and I am sure you will find the answer.
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Post by bayou on Jun 11, 2016 11:01:28 GMT -5
So, reading through the threads that Gary provided (thanks dude), my short summary is: this issue is as murky as all the other parts of this process.
Longer summary: It seems that Funky is correct. Virtually all of the discussion is about the active/judicial/good standing issue. While there are some posters in those threads talking about dates issues, it seems that those were all kicked at the initial stage. I didn't find anybody that clearly stated that they were kicked after DC as a result of not putting month/day/year.
At least one person reported being on the register and listing only year for admission date. Others reported making it through with only month/year listed. 71Stretch's words are gold; the filter based on date is arbitrary depending on who reviewed your app but if you make it through the first stage, then it appears unlikely that the date issue will come back to bite you. However, if you have anything other than "active" you may have to battle at a later stage to prove that you meet the requirement.
As many have said before, serious thanks for each of y'all taking the time to discuss an issue that you lived years ago with a new group.
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Post by lawbird on Jun 11, 2016 11:57:42 GMT -5
I do have a fuzzy memory of someone who went all the way to DC and then had something from the first step come back and bite them. I think it was a bar standing issue, not date though. I was in the group that inexplicably tanked the WD.; appealed to no avail. Just a reminder for west coast folks we can start step two tomorrow night at 9 pm if we are so inclined.
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Post by futurealj on Jun 11, 2016 11:57:55 GMT -5
Hi everybody! (*waving*) I know...It's been a long time...but I'm baaaack!!...Sorry I stayed away so long...as some of you may remember, I didn't make it to the third round last time and I was so disappointed (in myself) :-( ...and as someone said earlier in this thread, this forum DOES get addictive so I had to get off for awhile...BUT now that we are back in the game...how can I stay away...LET'S GOOOOOOO! We are in this together...all worrying and waiting...and praying...Good luck everybody!! I am rooting for all of us...ESPECIALLY those who were here with me in 2013 and suffered the heartbreak along with me. :-) (((HUGS))) Let's do this!! Good luck! Thanks gary!!
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Post by justlooking on Jun 11, 2016 12:08:15 GMT -5
I do have a fuzzy memory of someone who went all the way to DC and then had something from the first step come back and bite them. I think it was a bar standing issue, not date though. I was in the group that inexplicably tanked the WD.; appealed to no avail. Just a reminder for west coast folks we can start step two tomorrow night at 9 pm if we are so inclined. I thought we all got June 20th as a start date for round 2?
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Post by lawbird on Jun 11, 2016 12:10:47 GMT -5
Oh gosh you're right. I'm a week ahead of myself. So next Sunday. Can't hardly wait, I guess.
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Post by phoenixrisingALJ on Jun 11, 2016 12:26:45 GMT -5
So, reading through the threads that Gary provided (thanks dude), my short summary is: this issue is as murky as all the other parts of this process. Longer summary: It seems that Funky is correct. Virtually all of the discussion is about the active/judicial/good standing issue. While there are some posters in those threads talking about dates issues, it seems that those were all kicked at the initial stage. I didn't find anybody that clearly stated that they were kicked after DC as a result of not putting month/day/year. At least one person reported being on the register and listing only year for admission date. Others reported making it through with only month/year listed. 71Stretch's words are gold; the filter based on date is arbitrary depending on who reviewed your app but if you make it through the first stage, then it appears unlikely that the date issue will come back to bite you. However, if you have anything other than "active" you may have to battle at a later stage to prove that you meet the requirement. As many have said before, serious thanks for each of y'all taking the time to discuss an issue that you lived years ago with a new group. I think this (did I properly list my bar admission date) is one of those times/issues that you can get lost in old threads and lose sleep over. Bottom line - whatever we did with respect to our initial application is DONE. It has either already bitten us in the ass and apparently it might still come up down the road OR it might NOT (nothing like consistency from OPM- ugh). Logically the fact that someone who only wrote down a month and a year and that date is well over 7 years ago (Like late 80's - smh) - you would think the day should not matter - the day should only matter for someone who is within a thirty day window of hitting 7 years. But that would require LOGIC and rational review by OPM. At this point I have my golden ticket email to stage 2. So I am choosing to focus on that and to stop worrying about the possibility of being bumped for this bar date issue (is this even a real issue - afterall) - or some other made up OPM issue. After-all - I have no control on what OPM will or will not do at this point. So I will focus on what I can control. Being well rested, having a quiet spot to take the online test that is interruption and distraction free. I admit though to having now spent the past hour looking for my actual framed certificate - that was buried in my storage room. I am now moving on to the F**K it stage. For those moving on to stage 2 - good luck. For those not moving on - I am sorry - I hope you find out why and if you really want an ALJ job - that you try again as it does seem perseverance can pay off as it has for some on this board.
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