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Post by prospect on Jun 26, 2017 9:16:54 GMT -5
I know many of us are focusing on SSA ALJ hiring, but as often comes up on this board, there are other less prestigious (but nonetheless good) judge positions in the government. One that often comes up on the board is the Administrative Judge (Attorney-Examiner) positions at the EEOC. Current opening in Charlotte, NC, and I have it on good authority there will be more positions around the country opening up in the next couple weeks. link (EDIT: Just noticed that this is EEOC internal only, but Keep watching for the subsequent postings for external hires) Job goes up to GS-14. Source: Me, current EEOC AJ |
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Post by JudgeKnot on Jun 26, 2017 10:11:12 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. What's the difference, in real-world terms, between an AJ and an ALJ? FYI, the link doesn't work for me, and when I tried a search on USAJobs for an Administrative Judge, there was nothing in the EEOC. Is it posted somewhere else?
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Post by gary on Jun 26, 2017 10:21:31 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. What's the difference, in real-world terms, between an AJ and an ALJ? FYI, the link doesn't work for me, and when I tried a search on USAJobs for an Administrative Judge, there was nothing in the EEOC. Is it posted somewhere else? See prospect's "EDIT" in the original post. |
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Post by gary on Jun 26, 2017 10:23:43 GMT -5
I'm always interested in these AJ jobs. If this were in or near my home town and open to external applicants, I might even apply.
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Post by stevil on Jun 26, 2017 10:52:09 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. What's the difference, in real-world terms, between an AJ and an ALJ? FYI, the link doesn't work for me, and when I tried a search on USAJobs for an Administrative Judge, there was nothing in the EEOC. Is it posted somewhere else? $! |
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Post by denise on Jun 26, 2017 10:56:08 GMT -5
I'm always interested in these AJ jobs. If this were in or near my home town and open to external applicants, I might even apply. I'm pretty sure there will be external openings soon. I know at least one AJ who left to become an ALJ with ODAR in 2016, and another who recently retired. Plus, there's an enormous backlog (Ask anyone who does federal sector employment law). |
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Post by JudgeKnot on Jun 26, 2017 11:23:55 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing. What's the difference, in real-world terms, between an AJ and an ALJ? FYI, the link doesn't work for me, and when I tried a search on USAJobs for an Administrative Judge, there was nothing in the EEOC. Is it posted somewhere else? See prospect's "EDIT" in the original post. Yeah, I saw the edit, but the link hadn't been edited out so I thought it was supposed to be a good link. It just links back to the original post. It isn't clear to me that the edit was telling us that the job could only be viewed by internal applicants. I was trying to be helpful by pointing out that the link wasn't working, so other people wouldn't have to ask the question, or so the original post could be fixed with a working link. |
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Post by foghorn on Jun 26, 2017 11:32:01 GMT -5
I recall on a different thread in a different context someone mentioned that AJ's don't have the same protections ALJ's have. (may have come up in the discussion about the move by some politicians/writers to consider having AJ's.
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Post by denise on Jun 26, 2017 17:03:22 GMT -5
I recall on a different thread in a different context someone mentioned that AJ's don't have the same protections ALJ's have. (may have come up in the discussion about the move by some politicians/writers to consider having AJ's. Perhaps prospect can chime in-- I do believe you are correct. They don't have the same protections and can be removed like other federal employees. Their pay is also limited to a GS 14 I believe. |
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Post by gary on Jun 26, 2017 17:09:13 GMT -5
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Post by foghorn on Jun 26, 2017 20:55:51 GMT -5
Gary once more amazes with his speedy links to abstruse requests. Thanks! Interesting reading. Question is these days is EEOC more open to outsiders/non EEO practitioners than before?
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Post by Ready-Now! on Jun 27, 2017 6:24:08 GMT -5
I tested with a very nice lady who was an EEOC AJ. I think she had just started as an AJ. She said it was a very good job.
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Post by prospect on Jun 27, 2017 11:01:21 GMT -5
For those interested, the EEOC AJ Position has ordinary Civil Service protections for all federal employees. The position maxes out at GS 14, which is pretty decent salary. Also, you have Union protection. Less protection than ALJs, but better than private sector.
The work load is pretty heavy but its interesting. I was a Trial Attorney for about 8 years before becoming an AJ. I took over a docket vacated by an AJ who became an ALJ at SSA. That seems to happen often enough around here that I think its safe to say that the AJ position is something of a feeder to an ALJ job.
You have a lot of autonomy, can telework a lot. Travel may or may not be required for hearings, but more and more we are using VTC as the other federal agencies increasingly have that available. Down side is very little administrative support. I have one person that helps with mailing when they are able, but that's pretty much it. More and more of the work I do, however, is communicated through the FedSEP online docketing system and e-mail.
If I didn't have small children at home to bother me I'd work at home a lot more. As to that though, the schedule is extremely flexible. You are almost totally in charge.
No robes or gavels, but everyone generally calls you "Judge" or "your Honor", which is fun.
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Post by acttwo on Jun 27, 2017 14:32:13 GMT -5
I'm always interested in these AJ jobs. If this were in or near my home town and open to external applicants, I might even apply. I would definitely apply since I can't really hold out a ton of hope for my appeal. The job might very well be interesting and challenging. And it would be a change, often not a bad thing. |
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Post by acttwo on Jun 27, 2017 14:33:30 GMT -5
I recall on a different thread in a different context someone mentioned that AJ's don't have the same protections ALJ's have. (may have come up in the discussion about the move by some politicians/writers to consider having AJ's. Perhaps prospect can chime in-- I do believe you are correct. They don't have the same protections and can be removed like other federal employees. Their pay is also limited to a GS 14 I believe. Y'know, for some of us, a GS 14 rate of pay sounds like a dream come true. |
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Post by denise on Jun 27, 2017 15:02:53 GMT -5
Perhaps prospect can chime in-- I do believe you are correct. They don't have the same protections and can be removed like other federal employees. Their pay is also limited to a GS 14 I believe. Y'know, for some of us, a GS 14 rate of pay sounds like a dream come true. You are SO right! Especially with paid vacations, massive telework ops, and little to no supervision. 😁😁😁 |
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Post by rose1022 on Jul 13, 2017 14:30:06 GMT -5
I've been an EEOC AJ for more than 11 years and am curious as to why you characterize it as a "less prestigious" job?
EEOC AJs are real judges (in case anyone questioned that) and the work we do is more complex than that of an ALJ with SSA, no disrespect intended. We handle adversarial cases that have been investigated by federal agencies and which have no substantive determination yet, and take those cases through all the same stages that a case in federal district court would follow. We conduct initial status conferences relating to scheduling and substantive issues; rule on various types of motions, i.e. procedural, discovery, and summary judgment; conduct settlement conferences, pre-hearing conferences and hearings; and write our own decisions. We work with Complainant's who do and don't have some type of legal representation and federal agencies who are always represented by in house counsel.
Unfortunately, we don't have the administrative support staff or decision writers that are employed by SSA, or the higher pay scale that ALJs are on. Frankly, that's all that I see as the difference.
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Post by rose1022 on Jul 13, 2017 14:31:51 GMT -5
EEOC judges do, at the present time, top out at grade 14. We also have union and MSPB protections.
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Post by prospect on Jul 14, 2017 11:12:24 GMT -5
Yeah, I think you captured what I intended by "less prestigious" in your own answer. Take a look at my follow up comment a few back as well. I think its a great job, that's why I am a colleague of yours.
There is some grunt work/admin work that you have to do. No "bench" to preside from or robe to wear, and you get to know experience the full panoply of government conference rooms across the bureaucracy for your hearings (or VTC), so that's all I meant by "less prestigious".
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Post by janebolin on Jul 14, 2017 12:18:43 GMT -5
I've been an EEOC AJ for more than 11 years and am curious as to why you characterize it as a "less prestigious" job? EEOC AJs are real judges (in case anyone questioned that) and the work we do is more complex than that of an ALJ with SSA, no disrespect intended. We handle adversarial cases that have been investigated by federal agencies and which have no substantive determination yet, and take those cases through all the same stages that a case in federal district court would follow. We conduct initial status conferences relating to scheduling and substantive issues; rule on various types of motions, i.e. procedural, discovery, and summary judgment; conduct settlement conferences, pre-hearing conferences and hearings; and write our own decisions. We work with Complainant's who do and don't have some type of legal representation and federal agencies who are always represented by in house counsel. Unfortunately, we don't have the administrative support staff or decision writers that are employed by SSA, or the higher pay scale that ALJs are on. Frankly, that's all that I see as the difference. I used to be a pro bono clerk for an EEOC AJ while in law school. It was my first introduction to admin law as a career choice. In fact, that experience is why I am here today. I was a state ALJ before making it on the register. All ALJs, AJs, Hearing Examiners, you name it, are important in making decisions for the people who need them. |
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